Legalizing Mary Jane

[sun rise]

Cannabis isn't poisonous. Your point?

An assertion was made about cannabis being "natural" as if calling something "natural" was a positive think. My point is that calling something "natural" is not necessarily positive because many poisons are naturally occurring.

And, of course, the drug delivery mechanism is a consideration. Smoke is smoke and smoking marijuana puts the same kinds of toxic chemicals into your lungs as tobacco.

 

[Father Heathen]

"Against" is an euphemism in my case.

I utterly abhor it, with a passion. As I do any sort of recreative drug use, particularly those that interfere with mental processes.

It is a matter of principle, of respect for society and for one's mental health.

And you would of course extend this abhorrence to alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine as well, right?

 

[Nymphs]

An assertion was made about cannabis being "natural" as if calling something "natural" was a positive think. My point is that calling something "natural" is not necessarily positive because many poisons are naturally occurring.

And, of course, the drug delivery mechanism is a consideration. Smoke is smoke and smoking marijuana puts the same kinds of toxic chemicals into your lungs as tobacco.

You do know there are many ways to partake of cannabis, right?

 

[DreadFish]

I am 100% for the legalization of pot.

I also think other drugs should be legalized in some way. The fact is, people are going to use various substances that change their perception and the current system does not offer the best way to curb the harm done by these substances. The biggest impact legalization will have is on crime. If anyone can successfully argue that the potential harm done by legalizing pot outdoes the current harm of the various legal and criminal circumstances associated with it, please step forward. Think of how much the Mexican cartels make in smuggling huge bulk amounts of (crappy) pot into the US. Just trying to stop that smuggling is not going to work, will ruin lives, kill people, and waste taxpayer money. Legalizing it will absolutely kill it. People wont want crappy Mexican weed when they can get high quality pot from a safe source at an affordable price. This also helps our own economy.

Remember, legalization does not necessarily mean endorsement of use, plenty of people don't drink and that has nothing to do with the legal status of alcohol, and illegalization does not really do much to stop or educate against use. Think of all the misinformation spread along side making certain drugs illegal. When they first made pot illegal, it was on entirely false information. Things like it making people go mad, become violent and the fact that it makes young women sleep around and hang out with black jazz musicians.

There are more benefits in legalizing pot than there are in keeping it illegal, that's just a fact. Talking about legalization does not necessarily have to do with whether you think people should use it, but if anyone still wants the government to hold their hand and keep them from having to exercise their own will and choice, enjoy continuing to be a baby.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

An assertion was made about cannabis being "natural" as if calling something "natural" was a positive think. My point is that calling something "natural" is not necessarily positive because many poisons are naturally occurring.

And, of course, the drug delivery mechanism is a consideration. Smoke is smoke and smoking marijuana puts the same kinds of toxic chemicals into your lungs as tobacco.

Why are so many people dying from tobacco and not cannabis?

 

[sun rise]

You do know there are many ways to partake of cannabis, right?

Of course but many think it's perfectly harmless no matter how they partake and it is not.

 

[sun rise]

Why are so many people dying from tobacco and not cannabis?

How many smoke tobacco versus pot. It's simple math.

 

[DreadFish]

Of course but many think it's perfectly harmless no matter how they partake and it is not.

If you make a tincture or other form of extract, there is no inherent physical harm in partaking. Any potential psychological harm is based on the psychological disposition of the person who takes it, not in the inherent qualities of the chemicals in the plant. If I remember correctly, cannabis contains both psychotic and anti-psychotic compounds.

How many smoke tobacco versus pot. It's simple math.

Or not. There are lots of varying chemicals in both plants. One of the biggest factors in the toxicity of tobacco smoke is tobacco specific nitrosamines, which, if I remember right, increase based on the method of processing the tobacco. This includes how long the tobacco is fermented and how it's cured; fire-curing tobacco increases the levels of TSNs in tobacco and the longer it is fermented, the more TSNs build up.

Nicotine also constricts blood vessels, which makes it harder for the body to get rid of toxins, while THC dilates vessels, making it easier for the body to get rid of toxins. There are so many different factors that go into the development of disease, like how smoking is very often paired with heavy drinking, further reducing the immune system's capacity. Also, THC and other cannabinoids have been shown to stop or prevent tumor growth.

Not just simple population comparisons. Greece and Japan have more tobacco smokers than the USA but lower levels of heart and lung diseases.

Anyway, I also dont like the argument that, because it's natural, it's safe. Still, it is just a plant, minimal to no processing is needed to make it ready for use and, unlike natural, toxic substances like certain other plants and mushrooms, it is not toxic to humans, so there's not great reason to control it, IMO

 

[Jeremy Mason]

How many smoke tobacco versus pot. It's simple math.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marajuana#Safety

THC, the principal psychoactive constituent of the cannabis plant, has low toxicity, the dose of THC needed to kill 50% of tested rodents is very high,[38] and human deaths from overdose are extremely rare.[39]

Annual Causes of Death in the United States | Drug War Facts

3 No recorded cases of overdose deaths from cannabis have been found in extensive literature reviews, see for example Gable, Robert S., "The Toxicity of Recreational Drugs," American Scientist (Research Triangle Park, NC: Sigma Xi, The Scientific Research Society, May-June 2006) Vol. 94, No. 3, p. 207.
- See more at: Annual Causes of Death in the United States | Drug War Facts

It seem to me that cannabis is comparatively safe. How do the links corroborate your views?

 

[Nymphs]

Of course but many think it's perfectly harmless no matter how they partake and it is not.

And who exactly are you talking to?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

"Part of nature itself"? There are many natural poisons so being "natural"is not meaningful in this discussion. There's a fairly long list of poisonous mushrooms for example as well as many other plants.

Yes, however this one is not poisonous.

The fact that something can be found in nature which expands one's mind is amazing. It's almost miraculous in my opinion.

 

[no-body]

Yes, however this one is not poisonous.

The fact that something can be found in nature which expands one's mind is amazing. It's almost miraculous in my opinion.

I'm for the legalization of all drugs but to play devils advocate, if you ingest enough cannabis it can do harm. We're seeing that problem now in Colorado with edibles. It's also different than alcohol since you can put oils of great strength in something that will taste good which a child or pet will ingest.

Granted all this means is we should focus on safety and education which I think can be focused on more thoroughly if we're not worried about banning these substances.

My personal opinion is drugs can be a useful tool for mind expansion but they are an unwieldy unpredictable tool that can end up hurting. I'd rather not take a gamble but I understand others are willing and I believe it is their rights as adults to be able to.

 

[Father Heathen]

Of course but many think it's perfectly harmless no matter how they partake and it is not.

No one is saying it's harmless.

Fast food isn't harmless, either.

In fact, fast food has killed far, far more than cannabis ever has.

 

[DreadFish]

I'm for the legalization of all drugs but to play devils advocate, if you ingest enough cannabis it can do harm. We're seeing that problem now in Colorado with edibles. It's also different than alcohol since you can put oils of great strength in something that will taste good which a child or pet will ingest.

Oh god, too much edibles :thud: Ingesting a high dose in edible form without being prepared can be a nightmare. No amount of smoking/vaping can ever prepare you for the magnitude of edibles. One the bright side, it wont be physically toxic, but it can be psychologically traumatizing in the wrong situation.

Education is very important in cases like these. People who work in dispensaries that sell edibles should know about these things and tell people who are buying them.

 

[Straw Dog]

In fact, fast food has killed far, far more than cannabis ever has.

In all fairness, cannabis probably does lead to eating a lot of junk food though.

 

[Nymphs]

In all fairness, cannabis probably does lead to eating a lot of junk food though.

Yes, yes it does.

 

[sun rise]

And who exactly are you talking to?

Anyone whose reading this that thinks that it's a perfectly safe drug.

NORML, not exactly an anti-drug organization put this on their web site:

Chronic exposure to cannabis smoke has also been associated with the development of pre-cancerous changes in bronchial and epithelium cells in similar rates to tobacco smokers. Cellular abnormalities were most present in individuals who smoked both tobacco and marijuana, implying that cannabis and tobacco smoke may have an additive adverse effect on airway tissue. The results suggest that long-term exposure to cannabis smoke, particularly when combined with tobacco smoking, is capable of damaging the bronchial system in ways that could one day lead to respiratory cancers. However, to date, no epidemiologic studies of cannabis-only smokers have yet to reveal such a finding. Larger, better-controlled studies are warranted.

 

[Nymphs]

Anyone whose reading this that thinks that it's a perfectly safe drug.

Smoking anything will do that to you. Fortunately, there has NEVER been a death from cannabis.

 

[sun rise]

Smoking anything will do that to you. Fortunately, there has NEVER been a death from cannabis.

"It won't kill you" is a pretty low bar. My PhD went up in smoke due to loss of motivation so I write from experience. And I was psychologically dependent on it and had various symptoms from bronchitis physically to various psychological/mental side-effects besides loss of motivation. There was also a "hangover" of a certain kind where I became grumpy and lashed out at people and then decided to smoke more so I'd feel better.

If you want to argue that occasional use of small amounts won't kill you or cause much of a side-effect, you're probably right except perhaps in people whose brains are not fully developed. And it certainly can have a medical use. But it's also true that people can rationalize their use - I certainly did for a while.

 

[Nymphs]

My PhD went up in smoke due to loss of motivation so I write from experience. And I was psychologically dependent on it and had various symptoms from bronchitis physically to various psychological/mental side-effects besides loss of motivation.
There was also a "hangover" of a certain kind where I became grumpy and lashed out at people and then decided to smoke more so I'd feel better.

That was probably due to other factors as well. I'm quite positive cannabis did not cause all that. :sorry1: NOT :sorry1:

But it's also true that people can rationalize their use - I certainly did for a while.

Of course they can. But you can do that with alcohol, cigarettes, food, sex, etc.