Let’s Return to the Fundamental Truth

[PureX]

I can agree that fear of god is a fundamental truth.
There are those who, without fear of god, would be murdering and raping.
Some on this very forum have strongly implied they are amongst that group.

However, there are those who do not fear your god or any other god.

How do you apply this fundamental truth towards them?

I suspect the time will come when their arrogance and bravado will fail them, and they will experience that existential fear that has led so many others to trying faith in a God of their understanding.

 

[Revoltingest]

The beginning of wisdom is the fear of God.

Instead of the fundamental truth (which is
unverifiable, & applicable in only some religions),
it appears to be the fundamental tool of those
in charge to control those who follow.

 

[Altfish]

Atheists aren’t immune to reality checks. You just don’t interpret them as an initial encounter with God even though it’s what it is. There is no opting out of the game.

Sorry, but threats of god do not impress atheists, it is like threatening you with The Flying Spaghetti Monster, it is meaningless.
For some context, I was christened, at the age of 13 I was confirmed, so I have been introduced to god, but since then science and engineering and reason took over.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I suspect the time will come when their arrogance and bravado will fail them, and they will experience that existential fear that has led so many others to trying faith in a God of their understanding.

The idea that normally rational people might resort to theism in times of desparation is not the selling point for theism that you think it is.

Starving people will sometimes eat sand; this isn't a sign that they're embracing the "nutrition" of sand that they previously refused to acknowledge.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry, but threats of god do not impress atheists, it is like threatening you with The Flying Spaghetti Monster, it is meaningless.
For some context, I was christened, at the age of 13 I was confirmed, so I have been introduced to god, but since then science and engineering and reason took over.

Setting aside an atheistic perspective, let's consider
the vast array of religions. Some have a different
god than God (the name of a particular one).
Some have multiple gods. Some don't have
fear of a god in their beliefs.

 

[PureX]

The idea that normally rational people might resort to theism in times of desparation is not the selling point for theism that you think it is.

Whatever makes you think I'm selling theism?

Starving people will sometimes eat sand; this isn't a sign that they're embracing the "nutrition" of sand that they previously refused to acknowledge.

That would scare the crap out of an intelligent man.

 

[McBell]

I suspect the time will come when their arrogance and bravado will fail them, and they will experience that existential fear that has led so many others to trying faith in a God of their understanding.

You claim arrogance and bravado.
But then, you make all manner of bold empty claims when it comes to others.
Especially atheists.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Whatever makes you think I'm selling theism?

Don't get too hung up on the figure of speech. My point was just that you're putting forward an awful image of theism.

That would scare the crap out of an intelligent man.

That's pretty much my point: theists gloating at the idea of desperate atheists resorting to prayer when they run out of hope comes across a lot like someone with pika gloating at the idea of desperate people eating sand when they run out of food.

 

[Kenny]

There is activity on this forum but much of it seems unproductive and meaningless in the bigger picture, so let’s start back from the beginning.

The beginning of wisdom is the fear of God.

To act or not to act. The default human state of mind is to be at ease, to be in the center of our comfort zone. It’s not until we get jolted and stung by a painful reality check do we reconsider our default state, and nobody changes at this fundamental level after the first handful of reality checks.

It’s easy to understand why we want to stay in the middle of the comfort zone, but the desire to deviate from this comes after the exasperation and frustration of getting smacked by reality with your guard down over and over. So we remember the pain, and we hold the memory in the back of our mind. This scoots us out of the middle and toward the edge of the comfort zone.

This is what it means to fear God. Our first direct experience of God is through getting smacked by reality checks. The message is “Wake up, this world is not paradise yet!” It primes us for action.

You can call this message the first moral truth and beginning of wisdom. When you get stuck, retrace back to here, remind yourself of this truth, and make sure you haven’t slid back to the middle of the comfort zone.

It is definitely food for mediation! Thank you.

I think we need to be attentive to this wisdom and hear its voice.

 

[PureX]

You claim arrogance and bravado.
But then, you make all manner of bold empty claims when it comes to others.
Especially atheists.

The arrogance and bravado I am referring to is the belief that we are in control of our own destinies. In my experience that gets knocked out of most people at some point in life, by life, sooner or later.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You can call this message the first moral truth and beginning of wisdom.

Or one could call it a sad reflection of remarkable hubris -- sad in that it must be emotionally and socially stifling to be driven by a need to fear.

 

[PureX]

Don't get too hung up on the figure of speech. My point was just that you're putting forward an awful image of theism.

It's not an image. It's why people need God.

That's pretty much my point: theists gloating at the idea of desperate atheists resorting to prayer when they run out of hope comes across a lot like someone with pika gloating at the idea of desperate people eating sand when they run out of food.

No one is gloating. Life is hard. Very hard for a lot of people. And you could be one of them someday.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's not an image. It's why people need God.

What does anything you've said have anything to do with "needing God"?

No one is gloating.

I think your fantasization about a day when "arrogant atheists" get their comeuppance qualifies as gloating.

Life is hard. Very hard for a lot of people. And you could be one of them someday.

And you would like that, it seems.

 

[PureX]

What does anything you've said have anything to do with "needing God"?

You'll understand when it happens. Right now you don't want to understand.

I think your fantasization about a day when "arrogant atheists" get their comeuppance qualifies as gloating.

Then I feel sad for you.

And you would like that, it seems.

No, I wouldn't. But life only spares a few of us, and only for a little while.

 

[Mock Turtle]

The arrogance and bravado I am referring to is the belief that we are in control of our own destinies. In my experience that gets knocked out of most people at some point in life, by life, sooner or later.

So it's preferable to sign away one's life to an entity described (attractively or not) by one of the many religions - even if such doesn't exist?

 

[PureX]

So it's preferable to sign away one's life to an entity described (attractively or not) by one of the many religions - even if such doesn't exist?

When you find out that you were never in control, after all, your choices become faith or hopelessness.

 

[Mock Turtle]

When you find out that you were never in control, after all, your choices become faith or hopelessness.

Not really - given some of us just live with a slight indifference to life. Why think any of us can have all the answers we might want?

 

[PureX]

Not really - given some of us just live with a slight indifference to life. Why think any of us can have all the answers we might want?

It's not about having answers, it's about not having them. And good luck with that indifference when it becomes your turn to go over Niagra Falls in the barrel.

 

[Mock Turtle]

It's not about having answers, it's about not having them. And good luck with that indifference when it becomes your turn to go over Niagra Falls in the barrel.

Easy-peasy considering what I have been through already.

 

[McBell]

The arrogance and bravado I am referring to is the belief that we are in control of our own destinies. In my experience that gets knocked out of most people at some point in life, by life, sooner or later.

hmmm..
Seems I misunderstood your post.
My apologies.