Let's define God.

[Phoenix]

I believe that in order to dedicate my life to something, I first must know what it is. I have tried and tried to define God, but I couldn't, save for the following characteristics: Omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipresent, and incomprehensible.

I find it kind of odd to live for something I can't comprehend. If he's incomprehensible, then he can't be defined, thus making God just another word, such as eraglouyaitonafg or ritzyurntialfy.

If God is omniscient, he knows everything that will happen in the ***ure, including his own. If he knows his ***ure, then it is preset, thus he isn't omnipotent, because he can't change it. If he can change it, then he isn't omniscient, because he doesn't know for sure what our ***ure will be.

If he's omnibenevolent, then evil wouldn't exist. A loving God wouldn't allow all of the torments, tragedy, etc. that we have now. Some attribute that to evil, which is defined as the lack of God. Wait, if he's omnipresent, he's everywhere, thus effectively killing that attribute.

Well, we knocked out five characteristics, leaving us with none. Any other definitions of God would be glady accepted. If God doesn't know everything, can't do everything, allows evil, isn't everywhere, and can't be defined, then what kind of God is he to be devoted to?

Read the following assuming God is omniscient:

God created humans spontaneously knowing that Eve would eat the forbidden fruit and thus release sin into the world. Yet he didn't stop it. If he already knew it would happen, then he couldn't have been testing us. Consider this: I taped the last SuperBowl and watched it 3,000 times over the course of five years, memorizing everything about it. I watch it with a friend and bet my house, car, wife, and money on the losing team. After my friend wins, I get mad at him. Is that logical? Well, God created us, knowing full and well we would sin, then, after a few generations, acted like he was genuinely upset, and flooded the world, killing all humans save for one family. I know more than one righteous family existed back then, so saving one and killing everybody else seems kind of cruel and twisted. He also knows which babies will grow up to be people that go to hell, yet lets them live anyway. Kind of like me knowing a friend would be killed by a mob in two weeks, yet me letting him go on, instead of trying to divert the problem. God could divert it by.. stillborns. Hey, I'd rather have a stillborn if I were a woman than a kid that was doomed to hell to suffer for all eternity. And isn't Revelations a little too harsh? After all the righteous go to heaven, the remaining have to suffer near death and, in my opinion, judgments worse than death. Like, three-fourths, I believe, will die, while the remaining get to live with Jesus for one thousand years. I think some miracles would suffice.. but no! We have to suffer locust plagues, horses that ******e sulfur and fire, global earthquakes, and meteor showers. And even with that, there will remain unbelievers. Omnipotent? I think not.

There's my take on Christianity. Respond as you see fit.

 

[Lightkeeper]

Phoenix, our word censor is working overtime. I picked up one word, but what is the word ending in ***ure? Please email it to me at [email protected]

If you type it in here it won't show up. Then we can fix the problem.

 

[codiegrl_27]

Phoenix,
Everyone wonders about those things. No one really can have all those questions answered until we die and find out for ourselves. From disscusions at my youth group I've heard a lot of different opions about these things. What I believe is that though God is God he can't solve everything for us. It's hard for me to explain my thoughts because I can think them but they wont come out right. But I think God lets these things happen so we can learn from our mistakes and become stronger people. Its a hard thing to believe in. My friend and I talked about this exact thing you wrote about many times. It's hard to believe when all these things are going on in this world, but you just have to have faith and believe God is doing the right thing and he has a purpose for it. It may not seem right, but that is what faith is. I guess he could be testing our faith too. With all of this going on, will we still believe in him and trust him? It's a hard thing and i struggle with it, but i keep on praying. So just keep up the faith and someday you'll find out what all this is about.

 

[Phoenix]

It's F then U then T then U then R then E. fa-YOO-ture

Well, I don't want to devote my life to something I find corrupt, cruel, and twisted with the promise of understanding him when I die. I think by then it will be a "little" too late.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I guess he could be testing our faith too.

But God (supposedly) already knows what what will happen, so why does He bother carrying out the test? Seems like a waste of time...

 

[Lightkeeper]

***Mod Post***

A reminder that this is not a debate forum. The subject is let's define God.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

***Mod Post***

A reminder that this is not a debate forum. The subject is let's define God.

No, the title asks the definition of God. The opening post deals with the POE - and poorly at that. Be that as it may ...

God: an entity capable of abrogating natural law in one or more ways.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Deut-- shouldn't we include that the entity is the Creator of all things in our definition?

 

[Allan]

Lets Define god.

This may be hard to explain and some would say to do it with scriptures, but I will do it from personal experience and observations.

Some people would say humans have no power other than what they are able to put into their physical effort, but there is another dimension to this and it is in the mind. Self empowerment is believing, visualizing what is wanted. This does bring results and certain events seem to happen where every thing works out and you can get what you wanted. Some people are more empowered than others. Some people get what they want but it turns out to be the wrong thing. Some people get the wrong things all the time and are accidents about to happen. Practical experience in life from child to adult and work can help visualize correctly.

Inventions of one type of item can occur at several different remote locations at one time. It is as though there is an interconnection of mind in the environment outside the body. Even animals can start the same habits well apart fom each other. This has been called morphic resonance.

It has been shown in the matter antimatter cycles an exchange of energy occurs and it could be similar to energizing super conductors. Everything is tuned on the same wave length, much like a radio carrier wave with personal characteristics only able to survive on the carrier wave.
Some people have drawn a long bow and said this is where humans could manifest their obvious physical future from and in fact their own characteristics. Maintaining physical being and characteristics like a bad habit from one time frame to another, one instant to another and allowing very little change. This could be extended to illnesses and deformities.

In one sense following this idea, through morphic resonance, progressively humans have the technology that they have which is effecting the climate. Everything is being built within a certain mind picture and culture. Machines have been invented, low in effeciency and chemicals created, all degrading the environment. Therefore even without another dimension the human mind with its aspirations is being fulfiled.

When a person connects with God they are called a Prophet and then God is able to magnify the combined consciousness of the people through the Prophet.
There are many false prophets or priests today who lead and then satisfy and magnify the inner mental desires of the people. The drug culture have people who drive it along taking on converts, science culture, religious culture, advertising retail therapy culture, every area of life needs converts. Remember that everyone uses God's power but the human through its nature is empowered to get what it wants, with some more empowered than others being able to over power and manipulate the weaker. A false Prophet or Priest will capture all the hearts and minds and lead the people to destruction.

The ultimate underlying driving force in the human is death. No one can escape.
There is a tendancy to be self destructive even unwittingly especially if the person cant get what they want. Their self centeredness and self gratification isn't being satisfied.
We have terrorism, suicide, death defying acts etc. Humans use God's power to have what they want or perceive and this is for self comfort, whether physical or mental or ego. Humans use time to manifest, while God is instant. God gives humans power through the human spirit.

If a people rejected God's prophet then that would remove all of them further from God and the projected energy from the people would speed up what time holds back and cause their own destruction. But the destruction is said to come from God, which it has, through the Prophet being empowered by God and magnifying the power of the false Prophets which is potentially self destructive, in the people. God sees what is happening through the Prophet and God gives the Prophet the power to express what is being seen. It is the power of the false Prophet that leads to destruction.

When the people rose against Moses and murmered against his leadership God's power killed many of them before Moses could make things right to save some of them. The power was in Moses and he was covering the people under his mantle and raising the energy of the people. When they rejected him there was more available power in them.

When Noah built the Ark the people were against him and they fulfilled there own fate. But it was God's power that they used. Noah raised the energy or raised the stakes by his Faith in believing God and building the ark and when he was spoken against their fate was sealed.

God is all powerful. Love is comprehended through the cross of Christ, the sacrifice of Jesus for sin.

Love is patient, Love works no ill, Love is gentle, Love is Kind.

Find God through the nature of Jesus.

This power will not force its way in and the correct process has to be purposely consciously and intelligently worked through. This will achieve some changes in the subconscious. Ultimately a new nature will take over and it has a different mind. Peter walked on water and Jesus caught him. It is like that but in the mental realm. Own mind has to be lost to receive the new mind and a gentle nature and amazing Love.

All the manifesting problems come out of the human heart. God's power is being used to manifest what is coming, out of the human. Collectively and individually people are manifesting their own life by using God's power in the human spirit. All humans are under the same mantle from the unborn to the elderly.

God's pure power mentally is as intense as how we could imagine the sun is in the physical and we couldn't even stand in the hot sun without some damage.

Jesus's nature has a mind that is a step beyond the human mind as it doesn't respond the same. The nature of Jesus is acceptable to God. It can be found by humans when completing a process giving access to God and the Love of Christ. Immortality is the reward of taking on the new nature, and to take part in a new world.

God's power becomes coherent through God's Prophet even if it is not accepted and doesn't fit the tone of the overall culture.

 

[keevelish]

God is not incomprehensible. We can understand his will by reading the Bible.

Think of humanity as God's child-
Parents don't have children to dictate their actions and emotions, and certainly not their destiny. If they could or wanted to, what would be the point of having children?
Parents have children to fellowship with them, love them, see them through their problems, and let them make their choices. Sometimes parents know the outcome of a bad choice that a child may make, but still allow them to make it- how can they be loving if they create a robot of a child.
God's being omnicient doesn't change our status as his children, his love, and his desire to fellowship with us.
Parents have children because they desire to see that person grow in life, and, in turn, this gives the parents joy. This is what God experiences. When we make good choices, he is joyful. When we make bad, he is sorrowful.
We, in our little human minute intelligence, are like small children. We don't know what's best for us. Can you truly second-guess the creator of the universe? Complaining doesn't change it a bit.

 

[Scott1]

I am not sure this qualifies as a definition, but here is my(our) take on God....

50 By natural reason man can know God with certainty, on the basis of his works. But there is another order of knowledge, which man cannot possibly arrive at by his own powers: the order of divine Revelation.1 Through an utterly free decision, God has revealed himself and given himself to man. This he does by revealing the mystery, his plan of loving goodness, formed from all eternity in Christ, for the benefit of all men. God has fully revealed this plan by sending us his beloved Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.


68 By love, God has revealed himself and given himself to man. He has thus provided the definitive, superabundant answer to the questions that man asks himself about the meaning and purpose of his life.

69 God has revealed himself to man by gradually communicating his own mystery in deeds and in words.

70 Beyond the witness to himself that God gives in created things, he manifested himself to our first parents, spoke to them and, after the fall, promised them salvation (cf. Gen 3:15) and offered them his covenant.

71 God made an everlasting covenant with Noah and with all living beings (cf. Gen 9:16). It will remain in force as long as the world lasts.

72 God chose Abraham and made a covenant with him and his descendants. By the covenant God formed his people and revealed his law to them through Moses. Through the prophets, he prepared them to accept the salvation destined for all humanity.

73 God has revealed himself fully by sending his own Son, in whom he has established his covenant for ever. The Son is his Father's definitive Word; so there will be no further Revelation after him.

230 Even when he reveals himself, God remains a mystery beyond words: "If you understood him, it would not be God" (St. Augustine, Sermo 52, 6, 16: PL 38, 360 and Sermo 117, 3, 5: PL 38, 663).

Peace,
Scott

 

[Phoenix]

But God (supposedly) already knows what what will happen, so why does He bother carrying out the test? Seems like a waste of time...

Exactly what I implied.

God: an entity capable of abrogating natural law in one or more ways.

Entity, something existing complete within itself. This didn't define God for me, it just said that he doesn't follow his own laws.

Also, I wasn't trying to disprove his omni- characteristics by using examples from our world, save for omnibenevolence, but showing how they contradict themselves. By saying "well, God can contradict himself".. We will never learn anything if we continue to place godidits on the things that we don't know.

Deut-- shouldn't we include that the entity is the Creator of all things in our definition?

That's not a definition of him either. It just tells me he created everything.

Allan's entire post was about how God is all-loving and all-powerful, and he failed to refute my refutal of both omnipotence and omnibenevolence.

Sometimes parents know the outcome of a bad choice that a child may make, but still allow them to make it- how can they be loving if they create a robot of a child.

Apply that to God giving us freewill, and you just refuted yourself.

Parents have children because they desire to see that person grow in life, and, in turn, this gives the parents joy. This is what God experiences. When we make good choices, he is joyful. When we make bad, he is sorrowful.
We, in our little human minute intelligence, are like small children. We don't know what's best for us. Can you truly second-guess the creator of the universe? Complaining doesn't change it a bit.

Yeah, either that, or sex is a natural and mandatory process for the propagation of human existance.

And, seeing as God is omnipotent, why would he succumb to emotions such as happiness and joy? Can't he get a bigger chubby than creating humans to suffer for him? I don't see the joy in that.

Through an utterly free decision, God has revealed himself and given himself to man. This he does by revealing the mystery, his plan of loving goodness, formed from all eternity in Christ, for the benefit of all men.

This doesn't define God. It just says that God revealed himself by sacrificing his son.

68 By love, God has revealed himself and given himself to man. He has thus provided the definitive, superabundant answer to the questions that man asks himself about the meaning and purpose of his life.

I still don't have a definition of what God is.

The other quotes failed to give me a definition of God, either.

So far, we have: He doesn't follow the laws he makes and he sacrificed his son. Hmm. None of those describe to me what God is.

 

[Scott1]

Nice tap dance Phoenix, but to ignore the LARGEST part of my post (#230) ??????????

Scott

 

[Allan]

I have experienced a touch from God and there would be no definition.
A scripture says that God's name can not be uttered.
Name can be nature.

The Ten Commandments express the nature to some extent by what is required.

I see common men and women would experience God and then express and be beacons of Gods' power by how they went about things.

God is. God is unchanging. God is timeless. God is closely available. God manifests everything that is seen instantly. There is no form to God. God is an energizing spirit.

When God energizes a person the simple process is that there is a change in the brain that over rides the usual balance of chemicals. A powerful Love experience occurs in that energy. But knowledge of God can be in no other place but in the mind.

Humans maintain a low energy level because we actively use own self belief and oppose another persons and have an animal predatory nature incorporated in the mind. God power is used but through an imperfect channel.

Humans use God power to manifest death.
You may have to fix your car to go on a journey.
As a human there is no more to it. Before I knew God that was my life.
Now my life hopefully has potential benefits but mostly it is a bit like walking over barbed wire.

I never would have read the Bible at all if I had not experienced what I did.
I am amazed at the people who do and have never experienced anything.
One experience is knowledge of the real world and not believing that is how it needs to be. Something better was designed but it has been taken over by those who need to control.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

#230 is a not a very strong argument...I could use the same logic to prove the existence of Spinkility. Spinkility is a force of nature that makes you a millionaire if you give Mr Spinkles enough money. How can this be? It's a mystery....if you understood it, it wouldn't be Spinkility.

*Note: please make checks payable to "Mr Spinkles" P.O. Box 1515, Ohio.

 

[Khale]

Here is how I would define God:

God is an entity who's perception is beyond that of the five dimensions. Any object that exists, exists within the five dimensions which are: height, width, depth, time, and concept. However, any given object can only interact with these dimensions based on there level of perception. For example, a human being, while existing in the five dimensions, can only directly interact with the first three. It can create 3-D objects, but does not have access to all of time or knowledge (concepts). God's perception however exists outside all these dimensions making him effectively all powerful and all knowing.

Now, earlier in this thread it was mentioned that if God can know everything then he would know his future and then be unable to change it. This of course would prevent him from being all powerfull. However, this argument is incorrect in that it is trying to define an infinite thing in finite logic. If God is truly all powerfull than despite the fact that he knows his future he can also change it. There is absolutely nothing that exists outside his boundaries.

Another thing that was mentioned was that it seemed cruel for god to allow evil things to happen and that it also proves that he is not existing in those areas where evil is allowed. In order to understand this you have to think of God as a Parental figure. Imagine that you have a two year old that is about to touch a hot stove. You tell him not to do it but he ignores you and does it anyway. You don't stop him and he ends up burning his finger on the stove. He has now learned his lesson and will be less likely to touch the stove in the future. Does this mean that you do not exist because you allowed him to get hurt? Of course it doesn't. So why should God be considered non-existant because he is having us learn a lesson?

 

[Ceridwen018]

So why should God be considered non-existant because he is having us learn a lesson?

It's not so much that god should be considered non-existent, as god shouldn't be considered all good. The parent let the child burn their finger on the stove, because it is necessary for the child to learn such lessons in order to be more successful at life. According to most Christians, the goal of life is to get to heaven. This goal does not require that lessons be learned, so for god to allow us to 'learn and grow' is pointless. Also, god is all-powerful, so he has the ability to allow us to learn lessons and grow without us having to experience pain and frustration.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Khale-- you say that God allowing evil to happen is like a parent allowing their child to get hurt...however, I see three problems with this.

1)as a parent, I would NOT allow my child to touch the hot stove...even if it violated my two-year-olds free will....and no, I don't think that would make him/her a robot
2)as Ceridwen said, if I was all powerful I could teach my creations a lesson without them having to suffer
3)you say God tells us not to do things...has God spoken to you? I have never heard God tell me anything...just people who claim God has spoken to them.

 

[Khale]

Ceridwen018--

It is true that the goal of most christians is to get into heaven and that learning a lesson in the process is not neccassary. However, this is the goal of the man and not the diety. It is entirely possible that God wants the lesson to be learned. The next thing you mentioned was that if God was all powerful he could let us grow without any of the pain and frustration. This is true, however, because he is all powerful he could do this with the lessons as well. (sorry about this answer. I'm not a big fan of throwing peoples questions back at them. )


Mr_Spinkles--

1.) Maybe you would not but you do not represent every parent in the world. Methods of teaching are a matter of personal opinion.

2.) See the answer I gave to Ceridwen018 above.

3.) I do not believe that I mentioned that God speaks to us. However, Most people believe that God speaks to those who are willing to listen to him. In my own personal experience I have not heard God speak to me. To be honest I don't believe that God speaks to everybody. He never spoke to every individual in the bible so there is no reason he should speak to everybody now. Howerver, I do believe he has spoken to certain people.

P.S. Do either of you know if their is a spell checker on these forums? I didn't notice one, but it never hurts to ask.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

defining God as one being with a beard in the coulds sending out lightening is constraining and incorrect. the God i believe in is a being that prevades all, it cannot be described, in doing so, you confine the nature and be incorrect. as humans who worship God, we visualize him in differeng forms as zues, jesus on a cross, buddha, or other gods and goddesses who symbolize the nature of this one God.