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Let's discuss VIRTUES
- Thread starter Spice
- Start date
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Oh I'll go tomorrow, and I went last week too. Hey, it gets me out of the house.
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Here's the next one. I did have to do one little modification and strike out a word too relevant to the theology. So how does your religion encompass:
Self-Reliance: is the virtue of taking care of oneself, while still maintaining
relationships with Deity. lt's important to
honor [the gods], but also to take care of
the body and mind. To do this, many
#$%@&%$#@ find a balance between doing for others and doing for the self. To thrive as part of a community, we must also be able to thrive as individuals.
Self-Reliance: is the virtue of taking care of oneself, while still maintaining
relationships with Deity. lt's important to
honor [the gods], but also to take care of
the body and mind. To do this, many
#$%@&%$#@ find a balance between doing for others and doing for the self. To thrive as part of a community, we must also be able to thrive as individuals.
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I think that self reliance is mostly valued by those who don't like those who need help to get by and who want to portray those people as wicked or against the public interest
But that said, I still think it is a virtue but not as much of one as some would have us believe
But the notion can be weaponised against people
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I believe that God gives each of us talents and gifts to use, and I believe that self reliance is important to a point but overall, we should Have confidence in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not upon thy own prudence. In all thy ways think on him, and he will direct thy steps." Proverbs 3:5-6
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Yes, another that can be taken too far. But if I remember correctly, you're Christian? So from 1 Corinthians 9: 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
Once again two theologies that are complimentary if not exact.
Any others?
I’m not a #$%@&%$#@, but if memory serves, I’ve been called one once or twice.
But I digress. I’m not aware of anything my religion teaches exclusively about self-reliance, though I’m personally an advocate of taking responsibility for one’s own spiritual path rather that depending on the actions or opinions of others. That not to say that they would be dismissed outright, but they would be critically assessed and validated before they would be accepted as truth.
I suppose I’m a bit more critical and skeptical than others that are dependent on one source on their path. I prefer to rely on personal experiences and research and validate them rather than take something another has said or written at face value. Not implying there is anything wrong with other approaches. I’m just wired differently.
But I digress. I’m not aware of anything my religion teaches exclusively about self-reliance, though I’m personally an advocate of taking responsibility for one’s own spiritual path rather that depending on the actions or opinions of others. That not to say that they would be dismissed outright, but they would be critically assessed and validated before they would be accepted as truth.
I suppose I’m a bit more critical and skeptical than others that are dependent on one source on their path. I prefer to rely on personal experiences and research and validate them rather than take something another has said or written at face value. Not implying there is anything wrong with other approaches. I’m just wired differently.
I am a Christian in a kind of roundabout way
I'm not sure what exactly you are asking here
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Yep, I've been called a plenty! LOL
I thought Hinduism had a tenet towards caring for the body. See -- learning! It's a fascinating way to share.
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
I get that -- that's my connection to Christianity, too. It was in looking for a passage that connected the posted bit on self-reliance to another theology in a specific way. I generally wouldn't use a quote from Paul in relating to myself, so I apologize for overstepping.
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Hey, I'm so crazy that I didn't realize that many Christians would not consider me to be a Christian after I converted to Catholicism. I mean, I figured that out before conversion but it took several months. I remember at one point I fell across my bed and BEGGED God not to "make me be Catholic." LOL Oh well, here I am, twenty years later. Hey, I figure once saved, always saved, right? LOL Not really but I do believe I've covered all my bases. At least baptism wise.
Indeed, but I see that as more self-preservation than self-reliance. For me that’s more along the lines of ahimsa.
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
So we'll see if that connects elsewhere along this journey of "virtues."
Perseverance is part of the Right Effort part of the Buddhist Eightfold Path.
Here is a except from the Magga-vibhanga Sutta: An Analysis of the Eightfold Path:
Here is a except from the Magga-vibhanga Sutta: An Analysis of the Eightfold Path:
"And what, monks, is right effort? (i) There is the case where a monk generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the non-arising of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen. (ii) He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the abandonment of evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen. (iii) He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the arising of skillful qualities that have not yet arisen. (iv) He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the maintenance, non-confusion, increase, plenitude, development, & culmination of skillful qualities that have arisen: This, monks, is called right effort.
Tamino
Active Member
Self-reliance
That is not really a virtue in my tradition.
Self-care, yes. Balancing work and pleasure, yes.
There are instructions to manage your property with care and strive for a stable position.
But non of those are about self-reliance in the sense of trying to manage on your own.
The ancient roots of my tradition are all about reciprocity. Help your neighbors so they will help you. Give to the poor, because you might end up poor yourself someday. Fulfill your role in the world, as everyone else fulfills theirs. Honor the gods so they may be favorable towards you. We're all part of the same world, the same network.
I think the closest that ancient Egyptian thought comes to self-reliance is in magic. Egyptian magic has an approach that appears quite pragmatic and irreverent at times: if you want something, and you know the right spells, you can simply assume the role of a deity, harness the power of the universe, and achieve your goals analogous to myth.
You need protection? - proclaim that you are, indeed, Horus in Khemmis, and the most powerful goddesses protect you.
You need healing? Proclaim that you are divine and poison and illness have no power over you.
You died? No problem, the right spells and rites will transform you into Osiris.
That is not really a virtue in my tradition.
Self-care, yes. Balancing work and pleasure, yes.
There are instructions to manage your property with care and strive for a stable position.
But non of those are about self-reliance in the sense of trying to manage on your own.
The ancient roots of my tradition are all about reciprocity. Help your neighbors so they will help you. Give to the poor, because you might end up poor yourself someday. Fulfill your role in the world, as everyone else fulfills theirs. Honor the gods so they may be favorable towards you. We're all part of the same world, the same network.
I think the closest that ancient Egyptian thought comes to self-reliance is in magic. Egyptian magic has an approach that appears quite pragmatic and irreverent at times: if you want something, and you know the right spells, you can simply assume the role of a deity, harness the power of the universe, and achieve your goals analogous to myth.
You need protection? - proclaim that you are, indeed, Horus in Khemmis, and the most powerful goddesses protect you.
You need healing? Proclaim that you are divine and poison and illness have no power over you.
You died? No problem, the right spells and rites will transform you into Osiris.
Self Reliance:
Dhammapada XII: Attavagga: The Self
157. If one holds oneself dear, one should diligently watch oneself. Let the wise man keep vigil during any of the three watches of the night.
158. One should first establish oneself in what is proper; then only should one instruct others. Thus the wise man will not be reproached.
159. One should do what one teaches others to do; if one would train others, one should be well controlled oneself. Difficult, indeed, is self-control.
160. One truly is the protector of oneself; who else could the protector be? With oneself fully controlled, one gains a mastery that is hard to gain.
161. The evil a witless man does by himself, born of himself and produced by himself, grinds him as a diamond grinds a hard gem.
162. Just as a single creeper strangles the tree on which it grows, even so, a man who is exceedingly depraved harms himself as only an enemy might wish.
163. Easy to do are things that are bad and harmful to oneself. But exceedingly difficult to do are things that are good and beneficial.
164. Whoever, on account of perverted views, scorns the Teaching of the Perfected Ones, the Noble and Righteous Ones — that fool, like the bamboo, produces fruits only for self destruction. [14]
165. By oneself is evil done; by oneself is one defiled. By oneself is evil left undone; by oneself is one made pure. Purity and impurity depend on oneself; no one can purify another.
166. Let one not neglect one's own welfare for the sake of another, however great. Clearly understanding one's own welfare, let one be intent upon the good.
Dhammapada XII: Attavagga: The Self
157. If one holds oneself dear, one should diligently watch oneself. Let the wise man keep vigil during any of the three watches of the night.
158. One should first establish oneself in what is proper; then only should one instruct others. Thus the wise man will not be reproached.
159. One should do what one teaches others to do; if one would train others, one should be well controlled oneself. Difficult, indeed, is self-control.
160. One truly is the protector of oneself; who else could the protector be? With oneself fully controlled, one gains a mastery that is hard to gain.
161. The evil a witless man does by himself, born of himself and produced by himself, grinds him as a diamond grinds a hard gem.
162. Just as a single creeper strangles the tree on which it grows, even so, a man who is exceedingly depraved harms himself as only an enemy might wish.
163. Easy to do are things that are bad and harmful to oneself. But exceedingly difficult to do are things that are good and beneficial.
164. Whoever, on account of perverted views, scorns the Teaching of the Perfected Ones, the Noble and Righteous Ones — that fool, like the bamboo, produces fruits only for self destruction. [14]
165. By oneself is evil done; by oneself is one defiled. By oneself is evil left undone; by oneself is one made pure. Purity and impurity depend on oneself; no one can purify another.
166. Let one not neglect one's own welfare for the sake of another, however great. Clearly understanding one's own welfare, let one be intent upon the good.
Secret Chief
Veteran Member
Perseverence is one of the six paramitas. These are the qualities one should cultivate; to make efforts in developing and maintaining wholesome habits - even in the face of the adversities that one faces in our life. As is common in Buddhism, the paramitas are offered as guiding ideals, not as something to measure oneself against to see if one has passed or failed a test.
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
On the theology I use as a base for this thread, (it's not my personal theology in and of itself) self-reliance is defined more as taking care of oneself so you can contribute to the work of the Diety and community, not working separately from them.
"The foolish man thinks he will live forever if he keeps away from fighting; but old age won't grant him a truce, even if the spears do." Havamal
Meaning: We need to persevere through life's strifes, not avoid them.
My personal take on perseverance is this: to strive for one's goals, and attempt to achieve them despite what events may unfold during the journey. To push through in an arduous task, even if failure is the known and expected result. To press on, on ones path until it's final result, pushing through any discouragement hurtled onto the road ahead.
To show a calm steadfastness in daily life. While also approaching situations with an open mind, acknowledging that anything can turn out right or wrong. A person does not have to be the smartest, the richest or the most well connected person to succeed -- as long as they can persevere when pursuing their goals, they will gain much. Without the ability to persevere through adversity, we would get nowhere, succumbing to every set back.
Meaning: We need to persevere through life's strifes, not avoid them.
My personal take on perseverance is this: to strive for one's goals, and attempt to achieve them despite what events may unfold during the journey. To push through in an arduous task, even if failure is the known and expected result. To press on, on ones path until it's final result, pushing through any discouragement hurtled onto the road ahead.
To show a calm steadfastness in daily life. While also approaching situations with an open mind, acknowledging that anything can turn out right or wrong. A person does not have to be the smartest, the richest or the most well connected person to succeed -- as long as they can persevere when pursuing their goals, they will gain much. Without the ability to persevere through adversity, we would get nowhere, succumbing to every set back.
Tamino
Active Member
In that case, lemme quote Ptah-Hotep at you again:
"Follow your heart as long as you live
And do no more than is your share
Do not shorten the time of following-the-heart - such would be an abomination to your Ka-soul"
... That's what I call Work-Life-Balance, 2200BCE