Let's discuss VIRTUES

[Spice]

That's a great speech.
The problem that enormous volition is a weapon of mass destruction, at times.
An enormous volition has pushed tyrants and dictators to make WW1 and WW2.

One should understand that we are 8 billion people on this planet, so there are 8 billion lives to respect, besides our own desires.

I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to concerning this thread, nor who you are directing it to.

 

[Estro Felino]

I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to concerning this thread, nor who you are directing it to.

Sorry, I'll rephrase, then.

 

[crossfire]

Self-Reliance:

One of the repeated lines from The Metta Chant is
May they take care of themselves happily.

 

[Estro Felino]

To me virtue is the capability of loving others, and understanding that my neighbor's desires and needs are as important as mine.

A person becomes virtuous, according to my religious perspective, when they consider themselves equally important as others.

 

[Quintessence]

Neither perseverance nor self-reliance are particular points of emphasis in my tradition. In some respects, they'd be considered vices. Why?

Perseverance shouldn't be needed when one is attuned to the proper course of one's life path. One simply flows in the direction one is meant to flow in. Too often, perseverance is spitting into the wind when one could simply swallow, wading upstream when one could flow down the river, or building walls when one could simply let others in. Humans are often very bad at accepting change in spite of it being a fundamental constant of our world. Focus not on perseverance, but on letting go, going with the flow. Knowing limits exist and accepting them.

Self-reliance is simply impossible. Everything we are and do rests upon and depends upon countless human and greater-than-human others. Why are so many humans so scared of the interdependent weave of existence? It's just strange to me. Does Mother Sky not provide Air for you to breathe? Does Mother Earth not provide food for you to eat? Does Mother Sun not warm your skin and let you see? Perhaps modern, domesticated humans have become too blind to the gifts of the gods when we pluck them off of shelves in some store cut off from the sun and the rain and the wind. Or when we slap a dollar value on everything and commodify it. Just a few moments stopping to think about it though and it is impossible to not recognize our interdependency on others. There is no self-reliance. We all rely on the world (the gods) to exist.

 

[Spice]

Self-Reliance:

One of the repeated lines from The Metta Chant is
May they take care of themselves happily.

I LOVE IT! I think you've provided me with the perfect background for my Tia Chi.
Namaste

 

[Spice]

To me virtue is the capability of loving others, and understanding that my neighbor's desires and needs are as important as mine.

A person becomes virtuous, according to my religious perspective, when they consider themselves equally important as others.

No argument there. In the tradition being presented in this thread, the virtue of self-reliance stands for taking care of yourself so that you can be of service to others.

 

[The Hammer]

Are we discussing other virtues or only the one? I've got 8 others lol.

 

[crossfire]

Are we discussing other virtues or only the one? I've got 8 others lol.

So far we've gotten to perseverance and self-reliance.

 

[Spice]

Are we discussing other virtues or only the one? I've got 8 others lol.

I've posted two thus far. I'll do another here shortly.

 

[The Hammer]

So far we've gotten to perseverance and self-reliance.

I've posted two thus far. I'll do another here shortly.

Ah, I see. Self reliance isn't a virtue I abide by:

Wisdom, Piety, Vision, Courage, Integrity, Perseverance, Hospitality, Moderation and Fertility.

 

[Secret Chief]

Self-reliance is a given I would say, as the path of one's life is one that we endeavour to create and navigate. There's no deity or "external" agency to assist. Or to put it in one little zen phrase "I can't take a **** for you."

 

[Secret Chief]

I've posted two thus far. I'll do another here shortly.

Don't rush, I'm going for a pee.

 

[Spice]

Neither perseverance nor self-reliance are particular points of emphasis in my tradition. In some respects, they'd be considered vices. Why?

Perseverance shouldn't be needed when one is attuned to the proper course of one's life path. One simply flows in the direction one is meant to flow in. Too often, perseverance is spitting into the wind when one could simply swallow, wading upstream when one could flow down the river, or building walls when one could simply let others in. Humans are often very bad at accepting change in spite of it being a fundamental constant of our world. Focus not on perseverance, but on letting go, going with the flow. Knowing limits exist and accepting them.

Self-reliance is simply impossible. Everything we are and do rests upon and depends upon countless human and greater-than-human others. Why are so many humans so scared of the interdependent weave of existence? It's just strange to me. Does Mother Sky not provide Air for you to breathe? Does Mother Earth not provide food for you to eat? Does Mother Sun not warm your skin and let you see? Perhaps modern, domesticated humans have become too blind to the gifts of the gods when we pluck them off of shelves in some store cut off from the sun and the rain and the wind. Or when we slap a dollar value on everything and commodify it. Just a few moments stopping to think about it though and it is impossible to not recognize our interdependency on others. There is no self-reliance. We all rely on the world (the gods) to exist.

Your response, and view, is so applicable to my purpose of this thread! I fully agree with you, just as I agree with the tradition I'm using. For me, its all about moderation and perspective and I hope that will come through.

When you see perseverance you see the hard, stubborn end of the spectrum. Others have noted that as well.

When you see self-reliance, you see selfishness as others have seen also.

But when you take each, in a much softer perspective as presented with each virtue, I believe you'll see how the term does relate to your path -- from the other end of the spectrum.

 

[Spice]

The next virtue to look at has always been important to me personally and probably fits my religious thoughts due to my hereditary background. Let's see what you think. And just to be clear, I didn't write the narratives for the virtues. I borrowed them from someone who does practice this particular tradition:

The concept of industriousness reminds
us to hard work as a means to achieve a
goal. Work hard at everything you do -
you owe it to yourself, to your family, to
your community and to your [gods]. I
figure my ancestors never sat around
being lazy - working hard was inherent to
their survival. You didn't work, you didn't
eat. Your family might starve if you were
busy loafing instead of doing something.
I try to make sure that I keep my mind
and body working at all times - that
doesn't mean I don't have down time, it
simply means that I am at my best when
I feel a sense of accomplishment.

 

[Eddi]

The next virtue to look at has always been important to me personally and probably fits my religious thoughts due to my hereditary background. Let's see what you think:

The concept of industriousness reminds
us to hard work as a means to achieve a
goal. Work hard at everything you do -
you owe it to yourself, to your family, to
your community and to your [gods]. I
figure my ancestors never sat around
being lazy - working hard was inherent to
their survival. You didn't work, you didn't
eat. Your family might starve if you were
busy loafing instead of doing something.
I try to make sure that I keep my mind
and body working at all times - that
doesn't mean I don't have down time, it
simply means that I am at my best when
I feel a sense of accomplishment.

That is not a virtue for me

We shouldn't have to be industrious

 

[The Hammer]

The next virtue to look at has always been important to me personally and probably fits my religious thoughts due to my hereditary background. Let's see what you think. And just to be clear, I didn't write the narratives for the virtues. I borrowed them from someone who does practice this particular tradition:

The concept of industriousness reminds
us to hard work as a means to achieve a
goal. Work hard at everything you do -
you owe it to yourself, to your family, to
your community and to your [gods]. I
figure my ancestors never sat around
being lazy - working hard was inherent to
their survival. You didn't work, you didn't
eat. Your family might starve if you were
busy loafing instead of doing something.
I try to make sure that I keep my mind
and body working at all times - that
doesn't mean I don't have down time, it
simply means that I am at my best when
I feel a sense of accomplishment.

This is something I abide by, although it didn't make my list. Industriousness is about being of service to both the greater community around us, and of the self. It's about giving and doing for others.

Edit: Stanza 58 - “Rise early if you want to take the spoils of another. A sleeping wolf will catch no meat, and a sleeping warrior will achieve no victory.” -Havamal

 

[Kathryn]

Industriousness is to me, first and foremost, taking care of one's own business, and then that of others. There are many, many bible verses and passages regarding being industrious.

 

[Tamino]

Industriousness? I would not see that as a virtue either.
It's a means to an end, no more. You need to do your job and fulfill your obligations in life.
But otherwise? Make yourself a good day, forget worry. (From the dispute of a man with his Ba)

By the way... If I remember correctly, studies have shown that people in hunter-gatherers groups often have a lot of free time. "Work" is not the default setting for us humans

 

[Spice]

Industriousness? I would not see that as a virtue either.
It's a means to an end, no more. You need to do your job and fulfill your obligations in life.
But otherwise? Make yourself a good day, forget worry. (From the dispute of a man with his Ba)

By the way... If I remember correctly, studies have shown that people in hunter-gatherers groups often have a lot of free time. "Work" is not the default setting for us humans

Ahhh, but it could also mean purpose driven as in one's studies or devotion, don't you think?