Let's suppose that when you die... !

[LuisDantas]

I think a large number of people are going to be surprised.......and then disappointed

I suppose you do. Why else you would claim otherwise?

It is still rather odd a thing for one to believe in.

so you sacrifice yourself for the sake of those who believe in Someone Greater.......

how noble of you.....

No, not at all.

I just notice that there is no point in treating fear as a honorable motivation, and therefore there is no way for the Wager to make any sense.

There is no sacrifice involved. Except that I would have to sacrifice both my honesty and reason in order to pretend to see any sense in the Wager, I suppose. And for no benefit whatsoever to anyone, to boot. So there is no point in even making the attempt.

 

[Thief]

I suppose you do. Why else you would claim otherwise?

It is still rather odd a thing for one to believe in.

No, not at all.

I just notice that there is no point in treating fear as a honorable motivation, and therefore there is no way for the Wager to make any sense.

There is no sacrifice involved. Except that I would have to sacrifice both my honesty and reason in order to pretend to see any sense in the Wager, I suppose. And for no benefit whatsoever to anyone, to boot. So there is no point in even making the attempt.

no fear......
take that out of your equation.

no need to fear.....until the error you make stands before you

and you admit.....your post work has no benefit?

 

[Sees]

To me it wouldn't matter what afterlife proves true. I'd have the same feeling I have now.

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.

You are an honorary Heathen

 

[LuisDantas]

no fear......
take that out of your equation.

no need to fear.....until the error you make stands before you

and you admit.....your post work has no benefit?

Is it quite that hard for you to realize and accept that you are talking nonsense with no chance whatsover of convincing me of anything?

Half the time you are talking about things that I plain don't see as even barely possible. The other half seems to assume that I nevertheless believe in them and some more unspoken parts.

And to top it all, there isn't even a point to it all.

I honestly wonder why you keep talking cryptic, meaningless stuff like that. It is not like it can serve any useful purpose.

 

[gnomon]

I believe the first Muslims in world were Adam (pbuh) and his wife, because they submit to God.

Actually.....they didn't.

 

[Godobeyer]

Actually.....they didn't.

I believe they did, maybe the Christians believe that they did not.
Are you a Christian ?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I believe the first Muslims in world were Adam (pbuh) and his wife, because they submit to God.

Our primitive ancestors? What did they know? They were hardly any different from Chimps. In what period do you think they existed?
I ask because many Christians believe they existed some 6,000 years ago.

 

[Godobeyer]

Our primitive ancestors? What did they know? They were hardly any different from Chimps. In what period do you think they existed?
I ask because many Christians believe they existed some 6,000 years ago.

Chimps remain chimps.

The there are many Islamic opinions about this issue.

I am with the interpretation of "there were creatures looks like "actual" human being before".

Because the angels don't know the future.they talking about something already happened.


And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."


http://quran.com/2/30

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

For me this is easy - rather than suffer eternally, I'd simply ask that if I was ever cared for or "loved" by my heavenly creator/creators that they destroy me entirely instead. And if my request were denied so that they could, instead, punish me forever? Then I would know for sure that I was never loved or cared about by those heavenly movers, and I could see that lessening the blow of "hell" at least a little. If my request were granted? It'd be no different than what I suspect death is like now. That is... that there is no "death" to be experienced beyond the end. No perception, no existence, etc.

 

[Godobeyer]

For me this is easy - rather than suffer eternally, I'd simply ask that if I was ever cared for or "loved" by my heavenly creator/creators that they destroy me entirely instead. And if my request were denied so that they could, instead, punish me forever? Then I would know for sure that I was never loved or cared about by those heavenly movers, and I could see that lessening the blow of "hell" at least a little. If my request were granted? It'd be no different than what I suspect death is like now. That is... that there is no "death" to be experienced beyond the end. No perception, no existence, etc.

I believe the punishement or forgiveness that's up to Him, In judgement day certianlly the disbelievers and criminals they would wish remain dust (dead).

http://quran.com/36/52

They will say, "O woe to us! Who has raised us up from our sleeping place?" [The reply will be], "This is what the Most Merciful had promised, and the messengers told the truth."

http://quran.com/78/40

Indeed, We have warned you of a near punishment on the Day when a man will observe what his hands have put forth and the disbeliever will say, "Oh, I wish that I were dust!"

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Indeed, We have warned you of a near punishment on the Day when a man will observe what his hands have put forth and the disbeliever will say, "Oh, I wish that I were dust!"

And if it is possible for this wish to be fulfilled, and therefore an ETERNITY of UNNECESSARY suffering be avoided, but instead God goes ahead with the doling out of eternal punishment? Then what? What does that say about God? That He would rather torture and make suffer than to grant a last TRULY DYING wish of one of His creations. Being all powerful, the difference in effort between complete destruction and casting into hell should be negligible. Therefore He would be making the conscious choice to torture for eternity rather than simply "fix" the same problem by the destruction of the soul - which, let's not forget, the soul has expressed it desires. Either way, God will have gotten himself into a predicament, from which there is no "moral" high-ground.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

no fear......
take that out of your equation.

no need to fear.....until the error you make stands before you

and you admit.....your post work has no benefit?

You are definitely the one who will face disappointment. You have solidified this outcome for yourself by putting so much stock in your version of the tale. Quite simply put, you're wrong. We all are, so welcome to the club.

 

[Godobeyer]

And if it is possible for this wish to be fulfilled, and therefore an ETERNITY of UNNECESSARY suffering be avoided, but instead God goes ahead with the doling out of eternal punishment? Then what? What does that say about God? That He would rather torture and make suffer than to grant a last TRULY DYING wish of one of His creations. Being all powerful, the difference in effort between complete destruction and casting into hell should be negligible. Therefore He would be making the conscious choice to torture for eternity rather than simply "fix" the same problem by the destruction of the soul - which, let's not forget, the soul has expressed it desires. Either way, God will have gotten himself into a predicament, from which there is no "moral" high-ground.

I believe He Whom made the rules in that Day,No one could change His willing, the actual opinions does not work in that Day.

I believe this life is test,and hereafter is result of the test.I trust His justice,I do think even non-Muslims could touch by His mercy, except the disbelievers (whom receive His message) but they reject it.and bad people wish remain dead,because they face the idea what they denied,may fighting as fact happening.

 

[LuisDantas]

Chimps remain chimps.

Sorry, but that is just not even remotely true, Godobeyer. Chimps are certainly not exempt from speciation. They were not chimps enough generations ago, and they will no longer be chimps once enough generations pass, either.

That is quite simply how things work in reality, and the evidence for that is so solid and overwhelming that neither Darwin, nor Wallace nor anyone else of the many who attempted to disprove it ever could gain any ground.

 

[Godobeyer]

Sorry, but that is just not even remotely true, Godobeyer. Chimps are certainly not exempt from speciation. They were not chimps enough generations ago, and they will no longer be chimps once enough generations pass, either.

That is quite simply how things work in reality, and the evidence for that is so solid and overwhelming that neither Darwin, nor Wallace nor anyone else of the many who attempted to disprove it ever could gain any ground.

They were what ?

Don't tell me the bird came from moustique.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I reject Islam on the basis that their God can't communicate coherently as evidenced by the jumbled mess that is the Koran. It has no connecting thread and literally reads like a bunch of random thoughts strung together. Not to mention the fact that it actually represents a regression in religious thought toward Old Testament times

 

[LuisDantas]

They were what ?

Earlier primates. Before that, earlier non-primate mammals. Before that, reptiles. Then amphibians. Then primitive fishes. And so on.

Don't tell me the bird came from moustique.

Birds came from reptiles as well. But they branched away from mammals.

 

[gnomon]

I would like to add.......I waited.

It was blabber.

I believe they did, maybe the Christians believe that they did not.
Are you a Christian ?

No. But you would have been better off asking about if I was Jewish. Which I'm not. But it still would have been in a better direction.

 

[Godobeyer]

I reject Islam on the basis that their God can't communicate coherently as evidenced by the jumbled mess that is the Koran. It has no connecting thread and literally reads like a bunch of random thoughts strung together. Not to mention the fact that it actually represents a regression in religious thought toward Old Testament times

That's why we used Tafsir ,because almost each verse of Quran had it's historic reference.

 

[Godobeyer]

Earlier primates. Before that, earlier non-primate mammals. Before that, reptiles. Then amphibians. Then primitive fishes. And so on.

Birds came from reptiles as well. But they branched away from mammals.

and our earlier "creatures" someof them was with out brian some was without heart ,bones ....etc .

We are run on life track ,for your opinion if all actual creatures died (on the earth next year), that would be appeance of new creatures without "extern power" , next millions of years ?

For my opinion there was no primitive for all cases, there was an extinction and appreance (creation).