Let's suppose that when you die... !

[Thief]

He must be, if there is anything at all to the claim that I better believe in His existence lest I suffer in the afterlife.

So, you see, either way it makes no sense whatsoever for me to care about such a scenario. And I do not. Not at all.

The only reason why I even talk about it is because people deserve better than to hold illogical, anguish-ladden beliefs.



Within these parameters? Sure.

small circles....small results.....

I don't believe God is seeking to be harmful.....
it is simply a matter of finding spirit similar to Himself.

it seems you already harbor ill will to this notion of Someone Greater
and your references (no doubt) come from dogmatic faith......steeped in consequence pending

I do believe in consequence....
but only as a result of your own beliefs......or lack thereof

 

[Jainarayan]

*** Thread moved to Religious Debates ***​

 

[Hawkins]

Hello all

My question especially to atheists.

Let's imagine that when you die ,you would discover that there is hereafter and judgement day ,and hell and heaven...etc

Seriously what suppose to be would your reactions ?


I forget to write if you discover that view of Islam about judgement day is true !

Basically it can't be true.

1) If it's true, humans will be informed of the consequence
2) If it's true, the god must provide a solution to get as many saved as possible

In order to achieve 2)
3) this solution must be as widely spread as possible, that is, "preaching the gospel to the end of the world"
4) If it's true, the message should be guarded from being distorted, such that humans in different ages will see the same message of the said solution

Christianity has a whole library (the Dead Sea Scrolls) for humans to tell that the OT message we hear today remains the same 2000 years ago. We have also 2 independent manuscript sources for us to tell that the same NT message we hear today remains the same some 2000 years ago. We also have an earthly entity called "Church" to ensure that only the Canonized Bible will be conveyed. The Church will also ensure that nothing else can be added to this Canonized Bible.

The NT Bible is about a multiple account human witnessing with the multiple direct witnesses said to have martyred themselves for what was witnessed.

 

[LuisDantas]

small circles....small results.....

I don't believe God is seeking to be harmful.....
it is simply a matter of finding spirit similar to Himself.

it seems you already harbor ill will to this notion of Someone Greater
and your references (no doubt) come from dogmatic faith......steeped in consequence pending

I do believe in consequence....
but only as a result of your own beliefs......or lack thereof

Ill will? That is a lot to attribute to a fictional construct. Far as I know, god is simply not nearly real enough to deserve any ill will.

I just won't enable those who want to abuse the concept of deity if I can help it.

 

[Godobeyer]

Basically it can't be true.

1) If it's true, humans will be informed of the consequence
2) If it's true, the god must provide a solution to get as many saved as possible

.

It's could be true too.

1-it's true,humans informed of the consequences. (exemple Bible and Quran)

2-I belieive HE IS THE JUSTICE,and I think God will saved as possible,and ,may include whom never heard about His message, or may whom being distract by media, and people.

 

[Bhairava]

If they'd been good people they'd be pleasantly surprised to find themselves in the Realm of Good Consciousness with Lord Mazda!

Holy **** I thought you were joking with that Lords name lol. Didn't know Zoroastrians still existed! But then again I follow a dead religion too; Trika Saivism.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Holy **** I thought you were joking with that Lords name lol. Didn't know Zoroastrians still existed! But then again I follow a dead religion too; Trika Saivism.

It's not dead if it still has adherents.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Do you believe that God suppose to be justice in hereafter?

Do I believe Allah is supposed to be a just god? Yes since that is what he claims to be. Do I think he actually will be just? No. Allah claims to be a just god, but then he also created us for the sole purpose of worshipping him and intends to torture us eternally for actions beyond our control.

I do believe that there is no eternal hell for all disbelievers. (some reference in Quran said that)

And that's genuinely nice. Really, I mean that. Unfortunately I suspect you're in the minority. There's nothing in the Quran that says hellfire is restorative and temporary. It's at least heavily implied that hellfire is permanent & punitive.

For verse 16:93 that could be understandbale in Arabic more than in English,, that's God talking to prophet Muhammad(pbuh) about FREE WILL .

If Allah is influencing our decisions then there is no free will as we can't make choices without his interference. The issue of free will already conflicts with an all-knowing deity but that's a philosophical argument for another time.

The idea of predestination is one of the reasons Zoroastrianism (which rejects the concept) makes more sense to me than Islam (which expounds it) does even though I practice neither one as a religion. Do we truly deserve to be punished for something we can't avoid doing? Would a truly just god willingly inflict said punishment upon us - especially if it could simply choose not to?

He gave every human being a free will , in judgement day He will judge who is "right path" and who is "wrong path"

41/46
Whoever does righteousness - it is for his [own] soul; and whoever does evil [does so] against it. And your Lord is not ever unjust to [His] servants.


Note : His servants = could mean His creatures(human being).

I don't believe Allah is as described in the Quran:- I don't believe he's just. He already knows which of us are bound for paradise and which are bound for the fire. Being omnipotent, Allah can act without consequence (e.g. disregarding 'cause & effect') and spare those who won't worship him from eternal suffering at no loss to himself. But he probably won't because he doesn't sound like a wise or just god.

 

[Thief]

Ill will? That is a lot to attribute to a fictional construct. Far as I know, god is simply not nearly real enough to deserve any ill will.

I just won't enable those who want to abuse the concept of deity if I can help it.

but it's easy to see....especially when you post what you think of God.

you never credit God in a positive manner

 

[Thief]

I don't believe Allah is as described in the Quran:- I don't believe he's just. He already knows which of us are bound for paradise and which are bound for the fire. Being omnipotent, Allah can act without consequence (e.g. disregarding 'cause & effect') and spare those who won't worship him from eternal suffering at no loss to himself. But he probably won't because he doesn't sound like a wise or just god.

I don't believe God is accurately described in any scripture.
I look to the creation .....as a creation is a reflection of it's Creator.

God gave Man dominion.....and freewill.
Man would be that exception in the scheme of reflections

and that is a paradox.....

Man was formed to form in turn....unique spirit
but we turn on each other
and we turn against God

 

[LuisDantas]

but it's easy to see....especially when you post what you think of God.

you never credit God in a positive manner

I really think you fail to understand what atheism is at a basic level. Otherwise you would never say such things.

 

[McBell]

and the same old accusation of fear...as I my alleged fear takes away the viewpoint.....
and it does not.

And yet you just focused on your fear in reply to a post asking you to finally answer what it is you claim I am denying....
YOUR denial is most comical.

 

[Aquitaine]

Hello all

My question especially to atheists.

Let's imagine that when you die ,you would discover that there is hereafter and judgement day ,and hell and heaven...etc

Seriously what suppose to be would your reactions ?

EDITED to add
I forget to write if you discover that view of Islam about judgement day is true !

I would interrogate God and try to make it accountable for its unethical behaviour; I would rebel against its tyranny.

 

[Segev Moran]

Hello all

My question especially to atheists.

Let's imagine that when you die ,you would discover that there is hereafter and judgement day ,and hell and heaven...etc

Seriously what suppose to be would your reactions ?

EDITED to add
I forget to write if you discover that view of Islam about judgement day is true !

Well... I Think this question is not complete...
When you ask about the afterlife... it depends... Let's say I Die and get to the "After life"... But which one is it?
The Jewish? The Christian? the Islamic? The Hindu?

There are so many...
But I'll assume you are referring to the Islamic one...

Well.. I Live my life in a Good way...
I try not to harm people and do my best to contribute and help others... NO... not because of the believe that when i die some entity will judge me! but rathger cause I have an understanding that our entire existence depands on humans understandgin that without this, we are doomed and will be led to extinction!

I Really thing that the "Moral" is an evolution of our brains...
It is a way of our species to survive...

So If your GOD will sentence me to hell because I had sex, or I drink alchol, or i curse and claim the religion is a myth...
I guess I'll be very upset and "Take it like a man" lol...

But let me ask you a question...
What if you die and there is nothing?
You just stop to exist?
And all you did in life is worshiping an imaginative entity... realizing how many of life's joys you have missed? Just because you thought it is not allowed?
How foolish one might feel?
BTW...
I Don't think that when you die you become nothing.. I think there is much more to it then meets the eye...or the reason ....

 

[Segev Moran]

Being Muslim is not the only way of going to Heaven, I'm sure everyone who acknowledge and fear God by living moral life will have their place in Heaven. After all God is truly Most Merciful. Islam is just the best way to earn your place there.

WHY WOULD YOU NEED TO FEAR GOD??????
I Never understood it?

Why the hell () Would you base you faith on a deity that you need to fear?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I don't believe God is accurately described in any scripture.
I look to the creation .....as a creation is a reflection of it's Creator.

That's hardly a counter to my description of Allah.

 

[LuisDantas]

WHY WOULD YOU NEED TO FEAR GOD??????
I Never understood it?

Why the hell () Would you base you faith on a deity that you need to fear?

Apparently many people believe that we owe God for existence itself (as in, feeling bad for not being seeking the opportunity to express gratitude for it) and/or that without belief in God there would be no morals and/or that without pleasing God we are doomed to a bad afterlife.

No, I never understood it either. I hear the words, but I will be damned if I can understand why a person would believe in any of the three claims.

 

[morphesium]

Hello all

My question especially to atheists.

Let's imagine that when you die ,you would discover that there is hereafter and judgement day ,and hell and heaven...etc

Seriously what suppose to be would your reactions ?

EDITED to add
I forget to write if you discover that view of Islam about judgement day is true !

I really don't know how i would face this -but since I don't believe in any religion (that there is no truth in any religion which talks about "God is this not and not that" etc, etc..), I don't think it would be like anything Islam has ever claimed.
With this, I am answering your question based on the supposition about the judgement day :-.

Foremost, unless God is insane, I have no reasons to fear him and I hope the meeting would be friendly.

God being the knower of all , definitely knows not just my thoughts, but all the electrical and chemical information processing activities in my brain (something even I am not aware of). Now since

1. there are simple chemicals out there that can influence my thoughts and that
2. it takes on an average a few 100 milliseconds of (unconscious) electrical activity going on in my brain even before "I" finally realize the end results my self -

So, I cant be sure to what extent I alone can be responsible for my actions.

------------------ ---------------------------- --------------------------- ---------------------​

If God exists or not, I do believe that our moral is the best source of guidance. Deeply religious people often have their morales hijacked by their religion - it is for this reason they keep sharia law, uncivilized and uncultured punishments for practically no crime of insulting/changing ones own religion, child marriages etc. So if someone or your religion says something that is is good and acceptable to my morality, i would accept it, that's because there is virtue in me.

"2.44": What! do you enjoin men to be good and neglect your own souls while you read the Book; have you then no sense? - Koran

I reject any religious doctrine that does not appeal to reason and is in conflict with morality.-Mahatma Gandhi

Spoiler: Why should God sent a propeht?

I always wondered why would god sent a "prophet" or someone like that to convey his message ;- He simply can raise the electric potentials here and there in our brain and the message would be conveyed. Perhaps, what if our morals are the real divine messages that God sent directly to us

Moreover, to believe in prophet and Koran, one would have to agree with these;-

1. God has instilled information even in each and every atom on the whole universe, and every creature on earth, but hasn't instilled anything on ourself.
2. That God can't and won't talk with us or that there is no way God can talk to us without revealing himself.
   
3. that morale (something that has been installed by true God himself) is not the best source of guidance (because one has to accept Koran as the best source of guidance).
4. One is farther away from true God by putting someone else (Koran / prophet) between God and Oneself.

I just can't agree with the act of praising the God few times a day and supporting/doing acts of lower morale (just because their religion said so) would make the God happy. For these reasons, it would be an atheist who would be the true truth seeker. An atheist meeting with God would be more friendly.
.

 

[Thief]

That's hardly a counter to my description of Allah.

just because you don't see it as such......?

 

[Thief]

I really don't know how i would face this -but since I don't believe in any religion (that there is no truth in any religion which talks about "God is this not and not that" etc, etc..), I don't think it would be like anything Islam has ever claimed.
With this, I am answering your question based on the supposition about the judgement day :-.

Foremost, unless God is insane, I have no reasons to fear him and I hope the meeting would be friendly.

God being the knower of all , definitely knows not just my thoughts, but all the electrical and chemical information processing activities in my brain (something even I am not aware of). Now since

1. there are simple chemicals out there that can influence my thoughts and that
2. it takes on an average a few 100 milliseconds of (unconscious) electrical activity going on in my brain even before "I" finally realize the end results my self -

I cant be sure to what extent I alone can be responsible for my actions.​

If God exists or not, I do believe that our moral is the best source of guidance. Deeply religious people often have their morales hijacked by their religion - it is for this reason they keep sharia law, uncivilized and uncultured punishments for practically no crime of insulting/changing ones own religion, child marriages etc. So if someone or your religion says something that is is good and acceptable to my morality, i would accept it, that's because there is virtue in me.

​

I always wondered why would god sent a "prophet" or someone like that to convey his message ;- He simply can raise the electric potentials here and there in our brain and the message would be conveyed. Perhaps, what if our morals are the real divine messages that God sent directly to us

Moreover, to believe in prophet and Koran, one would have to agree with these;-

1. God has instilled information even in each and every atom on the whole universe, and every creature on earth, but hasn't instilled anything on ourself.
2. That God can't and won't talk with us or that there is no way God can talk to us without revealing himself.
   
3. that morale (something that has been installed by true God himself) is not the best source of guidance (because one has to accept Koran as the best source of guidance).
4. One is farther away from true God by putting someone else (Koran / prophet) between God and Oneself.

I just can't agree with the act of praising the God few times a day and supporting/doing acts of lower morale (just because their religion said so) would make the God happy. For these reasons, it would be an atheist who would be the true truth seeker. An atheist meeting with God would be more friendly.
.

I don't push my chemistry unto God.
wouldn't do any good.

in other words.....He doesn't need to know you dna.
He would be seeking the spirit you have become.

and atheist would be more friendly?....or God would be more friendly?

I suspect God and heaven are looking for compatible spirits.