Leviticus and Homosexuality

[Parsimony]

If you are questioning or doubting God's existence, but are uncertain with regard to His non-existence, I would suggest seeking God by the means I've suggested. If you are committed to stand opposed to God, then I can only hope that you change your mind very soon. If you already believe in God, then you know you want to know Him better already, but you just need to make the time to do that. Give God your time, an He will give you some of His time.

In my case, I no longer have certainty about this matter. If God exists, then I would most certainly like to know. At one time, I was completely certain of His existence. I was certain that the Holy Ghost experiences that I had were proof of God. In the last few years, doubt grew as I more carefully dissected my beliefs. If I am to regain the faith I once had, I need some confirmation that is more solid than inner feelings or personal revelation. There's no way I can verify that personal-only experiences aren't just a product of my mind (unless some kind of testable, unlikely-to-be-coincidence knowledge was imparted to me that I could later verify). I need something that can be verified objectively. I can't force myself to believe until something convincing shows up for me.

 

[Sonofason]

In my case, I no longer have certainty about this matter. If God exists, then I would most certainly like to know. At one time, I was completely certain of His existence. I was certain that the Holy Ghost experiences that I had were proof of God. In the last few years, doubt grew as I more carefully dissected my beliefs. If I am to regain the faith I once had, I need some confirmation that is more solid than inner feelings or personal revelation. I need something that can be verified objectively. I can't force myself to believe until something convincing shows up for me.

You felt the Holy Spirit, and now you doubt that you experienced Him? Why in the world would you doubt your own experiences? God would say return unto me, and I will return unto you.

 

[dgirl1986]

Do not confuse logic and reason with doubt. I made that mistake in my christian years.

 

[Parsimony]

You felt the Holy Spirit, and now you doubt that you experienced Him? Why in the world would you doubt your own experiences? God would say return unto me, and I will return unto you.

The reason is because I am no longer certain that the experiences were supernatural in nature, even though it seemed to be at the time. The people of other religions get joyous feelings and divine communications as well. So the evidence for their gods based on personal experience would be equal to my own. Do their gods exist too? If their experiences are being delivered by deceptive spirits, then mine could be too. If they are simply hallucinating, then that means that I could be hallucinating as well. It has been demonstrated that stimulation of certain brain areas can lead to these same kind of sensations. I would need some reason to believe that my experiences with the Holy Ghost are reliable when the experiences with Shiva/Odin/other gods are not.

Do not confuse logic and reason with doubt. I made that mistake in my christian years.

Was that aimed at me? Could you expound upon that?

 

[Sonofason]

Do not confuse logic and reason with doubt. I made that mistake in my christian years.

There is nothing logical or reasonable about denying the Holy Spirit.

In fact, it's spiritual suicide.

 

[dgirl1986]

There is nothing logical or reasonable about denying the Holy Spirit.

In fact, it's spiritual suicide.

It is not about denying anything but rather exploring where those so called doubts come from and why they are there. I am sure christian ministers would consider things very seriously before taking to atheism or another religion as some have already.

 

[McBell]

There is nothing logical or reasonable about denying the Holy Spirit.

In fact, it's spiritual suicide.

Says who?
Based on what?

Ah yes, the "based on my faith" argument...
So, what do you tell those outside your choir?

 

[Sonofason]

Says who?
Based on what?

Ah yes, the "based on my faith" argument...
So, what do you tell those outside your choir?

Says me, based on scripture, (The Word of God).

I don't have a choir. No one listens to me. No one even hears what I say.

 

[Parsimony]

I don't deny that my experiences took place. I know that they actually happened. What I am calling into question is the origin of the experiences. The causation. The meaning behind them.

 

[dgirl1986]

I don't deny that my experiences took place. I know that they actually happened. What I am calling into question is the origin of the experiences. The causation. The meaning behind them.

It is quite possible to have psychological experiences that feel very real. I have had these myself when I was religious and/or spiritual.

 

[Sonofason]

I don't deny that my experiences took place. I know that they actually happened. What I am calling into question is the origin of the experiences. The causation. The meaning behind them.

You just said Holy Spirit experiences. Either it was the Holy Spirit, or it wasn't. If it was, you knew it was. If it wasn't, you might have thought it was, and so you are now doubting that experience and what you thought it was, and it's origin, which more than likely was indeed God, The Holy Spirit.

Why does God give us His Holy Spirit?

Well, the Word of God answers this.
I've already quoted this, but I must quote it again.

"If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
(John 14:15-17)

Do you see it? If you love and obey God, we receive the Holy Spirit. Do we love and obey God in all moments? Not really. Often when we are working, or doing other things, we don't even think of God, so surely we won't feel His Holy Spirit during those moments.

But you knew it then, that it was God.

The Bible goes on to say why the Holy Spirit is given to us.


"I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
(John 14:18-21)

and more

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
(John 14:26)

There, now you know why the Holy Spirit is given to believers. It is to comfort us in our faith, when we are being obedient to God and loving God, and to bring all things to our remembrance.

You know, another name for the Holy Spirit is The Spirit of Truth. God confirms truth to believers via His Holy Spirit. He touches us and confirms truth for us when we are in obedience to Him and in His love.

 

[McBell]

Says me, based on scripture, (The Word of God).

Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

I don't have a choir. No one listens to me. No one even hears what I say.

Makes you a rather inefficient messenger then...

 

[Sonofason]

Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?



Makes you a rather inefficient messenger then...

Keep in mind my audience. Devout atheists and God haters are not the most receptive audience for hearing and understanding the Word of God.

 

[dgirl1986]

Keep in mind my audience. Devout atheists and God haters are not the most receptive audience for hearing and understanding the Word of God.

How can an atheist be a god hater?

 

[Sonofason]

How can an atheist be a god hater?

How can a believer be told, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity"?

Obviously, some believers are not what they claim to be.

Likewise not all atheists are what they claim to be.

Besides, I had said atheists and God haters. I didn't say atheists, the God haters.

 

[Sonofason]

How can a believer be told, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity"?

Obviously, some believers are not what they claim to be.

Likewise not all atheists are what they claim to be.

Besides, I had said atheists and God haters. I didn't say atheists, the God haters.

Like I say. People only hear what they want to hear. Why not hear what I say, and not what you would like to think I have said?

 

[dgirl1986]

How can a believer be told, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity"?

Obviously, some believers are not what they claim to be.

Likewise not all atheists are what they claim to be.

Besides, I had said atheists and God haters. I didn't say atheists, the God haters.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

All atheists I have met either grew up in a religious household or tried out religion and found it to be nothing. Of course they are not going to listen to preachers who read from a text that is not relevant about a religion and/or god that there is no proof for.

PS - the bible does not count as proof.

 

[psychoslice]

I personally think that Leviticus is a book that should have been removed from the so called bible years ago, its just fill of ugliness.

 

[dgirl1986]

I personally think that Leviticus is a book that should have been removed from the so called bible years ago, its just fill of ugliness.

I would like to read the ones that were removed.

 

[Sonofason]

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

All atheists I have met either grew up in a religious household or tried out religion and found it to be nothing. Of course they are not going to listen to preachers who read from a text that is not relevant about a religion and/or god that there is no proof for.

PS - the bible does not count as proof.

Obviously you are completely oblivious to what the Bible says.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
(Mathew 7:21-23)

What the Bible means to you means absolutely nothing to me.