[LHP only] What is left hand path?

[EtuMalku]

Your opinion of what is "stupid" is your opinion. I find your ideology to fit the same word as you use for "Theistic anything", and as a Theist, I am disgusted.



Deal with it.

I am and I have . . . it was not my panties that got in a bunch, if I recall

 

[1137]

Just loving that word "mundane", right?

Haha, am I using it a lot? Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Mindmaster]

Try to realize that the Eden incident was simply the retelling of an earlier Sumerian tale from The Epic of Gilgamesh
While you're at it, try not assume you know what I have and have not read, what I do and do not understand.

The Fall represents mankind's and nature's fall into materialism. This Fall shields us from the spiritual world and opens an Abyss between Man and the Divine. The Right Hand Path of traditional Qabalah aims to restore the original harmonic relation between man and the Divine.
The Left Hand Path fulfills and deepens the Fall. The Dark Adept continues the Fall from the Abrahamic God to reach individual divinity.
The reason behind the Fall is often described as being hubris, man's search for knowledge and forces that originally were not meant for him to acquire. The Left Hand Path leads to a second birth, a spiritual rebirth as a god/creator.

These are metaphorical meanderings with no basis in any sort of fact. If you think they are true, then they are dogma. The only difference is in my case, I admit that I sort of synthetically understand these ideas and I am more concerned with the bigger picture. I am searching for parallels, but not presuming what the ancients thought. What does it matter of these ancient toys if they are not props for you revisionist thinking? This is just an attempt to derive legitimacy from things completely non-related to the subjects at hand. You call me a pretender, but you are the one in the most precarious of positions with all these notions.

Qabalah has no aims whatsoever and is only a model, and moreover the western conception has no scholarly connections with the Jewish idea of the same thing. There is no correlation between Lucifer and Daath -- Daath is a Jewish Mystic term, and Lucifer isn't in their holy books. And the tree of life not being connected to the material world is garbage in any version of understanding -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malkuth. Even funnier, is that Daath really is the mystical state of oneness that Western LHP detests... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da'at, but would pose no problem for someone like me who follows the Eastern LHP idea.

Beyond the fact that this information is plain wrong... I see no reason to dig up the dinosaur... What purpose does it serve? I personally read on it just as an intellectual curiosity, but I back my knowledge with the few Jewish friends I have made over the years and tempered my understandings with the facts. I no longer see the Western reinterpretation of Qabalah as useful. But, I think it is sort of disrespectful to them to start tacking all of my ideas to their framework and I also don't see where it is necessary or needed. I try to understand what their thinking is not paste my ideas over them like graffiti -- I want to know the historical contexts of these matters and not just go on various re-imaginings. The problem with a model is it is always subject to being stuffed up with whatever crap the user of the system wants to paste on it, and that still doesn't make it useful.

There are reasons that deep spiritual creatures engross themselves in eastern ideas... It's that they haven't been completely contaminated by idiocy!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So, I'll share what I know and whether it is accepted by certain individuals I really won't give a care. But, if I determine not all of the cylinders are firing, like a bad tv show that I've seen before, I will just switch you off. Life is too short to waste on redundant people.

Even a fool has the occasional flash of brilliance.

 

[ThirtyThree]

Qabalah has no aims whatsoever and is only a model, and moreover the western conception has no scholarly connections with the Jewish idea of the same thing. There is no correlation between Lucifer and Daath -- Daath is a Jewish Mystic term, and Lucifer isn't in their holy books. And the tree of life not being connected to the material world is garbage in any version of understanding -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malkuth. Even funnier, is that Daath really is the mystical state of oneness that Western LHP detests... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da'at, but would pose no problem for someone like me who follows the Eastern LHP idea.

I find it strange that someone would actually desire to decend even further into separation from the invisible into the material. It is like literally cutting part of one's self off from themselves. Then, perhaps our "friend" here should just become an Atheist and be done with it. Most of them are as separated from the invisible/immaterial as one can get.

 

[Mindmaster]

Even a fool has the occasional flash of brilliance.

Ever mine for gold? You theoretically could start nearly anywhere. But, you could also be digging empty dirt for the rest of your life. Fools are fools, but even worse are the fools that think they are not fools and think they are on the level of geniuses.

 

[Mindmaster]

Your opinion of what is "stupid" is your opinion. I find your ideology to fit the same word as you use for "Theistic anything", and as a Theist, I am disgusted.



Deal with it.

Just ad hominem attacks, the usual resort of the losing party in a debate. It's something like this:

 

[ThirtyThree]

Just ad hominem attacks, the usual resort of the losing party in a debate. It's something like this:

Calling ALL Theistic Satanists as well as all Theists in general "stupid", is just ignorant. First, being ignorant does not make one stupid. Baseless accusations on groups of people do.

I am ignorant of many things. Quantum physics, for example? Rocket science? Bio chemistry? Tectonics? Cryogenics? Why people think rap music sounds good... The list goes on. I need not go on. In fact, everyone is ignorant regarding one field or another. I do not know what this individual's issue is with Theism, let alone me using Luciferian as the name for my religion?

 

[Mindmaster]

Calling ALL Theistic Satanists as well as all Theists in general "stupid", is just ignorant. First, being ignorant does not make one stupid. Baseless accusations on groups of people do.

I am ignorant of many things. Quantum physics, for example? Rocket science? I need not go on. In fact, everyone is ignorant regarding one field or another. I do not know what this individual's issue is with Theism, let alone me using Luciferian as the name for my religion?

Because his idea is better than yours, and apparently this idea was so good he had to leave Greater Church of Lucifer with it but couldn't just drop it after the 'no' vote. (corrected) As far as I am concerned your use is as valid as any other, and his supposed authority is no more of an authority than yours. I say whatever name you like is good enough -- there is some logical reason why you came to that conclusion. I mean, it stands to reason that one who believes in Lucifer is a Luciferian much more than someone who is an atheist in drag or a symbolic Luciferian, which we could logically argue makes no freaking sense. It's kind of the discussion I've had about Theistic Satanism -- if anyone has the right to use the name it is someone who actually believes there is a Satan. Everything else is arguably silliness... It is sort of OT for this post so I'll leave it here. Anyone that can't see why that would seem funny is just either in denial or flat out so arrogant they cannot see how silly it is.

PS - This isn't really directed at insulting atheistic anything...

 

[1137]

This seems most relevant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

 

[ThirtyThree]

Because his idea is better than yours, and apparently this idea was so good he had to leave Greater Church of Lucifer with it but couldn't just drop it after the 'no' vote. So he just made his own cult. As far as I am concerned your use is as valid as any other, and his supposed authority is no more of an authority than yours. I say whatever name you like is good enough -- there is some logical reason why you came to that conclusion. I mean, it stands to reason that one who believes in Lucifer is a Luciferian much more than someone who is an atheist in drag or a symbolic Luciferian, which we could logically argue makes no freaking sense. It's kind of the discussion I've had about Theistic Satanism -- if anyone has the right to use the name it is someone who actually believes there is a Satan. Everything else is arguably silliness... It is sort of OT for this post so I'll leave it here. Anyone that can't see why that would seem funny is just either in denial or flat out so arrogant they cannot see how silly it is.

PS - This isn't really directed at insulting atheistic anything...

If Satanists were something I could respect, I would call myself by that title, No offense to you intended.

I agree that THEISTIC Satanists and Luciferians deserve to be called Satanists and Luciferians and not Atheists wearing excessive black eye liner and black clothing... and claiming they are self made gods. Well, not all "Satanists" wear the above. Some do though! Edgelords is your word for them, right?

 

[crossfire]

Because his idea is better than yours, and apparently this idea was so good he had to leave Greater Church of Lucifer with it but couldn't just drop it after the 'no' vote. So he just made his own cult.

Actually, H☿D was around long before the GCoL came about.

 

[Mindmaster]

If Satanists were something I could respect, I would call myself by that title, No offense to you intended.

I agree that THEISTIC Satanists and Luciferians deserve to be called Satanists and Luciferians and not Atheists wearing excessive black eye liner and black clothing... and claiming they are self made gods. Well, not all "Satanists" wear the above. Some do though! Edgelords is your word for them, right?

Really, I am fine with atheistic Satanists/Luciferians. I mean, it's not like that they hurt me in any way and I have plenty of good discussions with most of them. Edgelording is really is what is going on with all this metaphorical, and derivative hash and mishmash. Qliphoth are basically the devils as far as Jewish Mysticism goes -- Lucifer wasn't devil enough add a few more. However, I don't understand why "Western LHP" gives two craps about all of these things other than to have an excuse to dabble in the holy Qabalah and not seem like you are a hypocrite.

At least as an expansion of LHP methodology (east or west) these are useless trappings.

 

[Mindmaster]

Actually, H☿D was around long before the GCoL came about.

Might be the case, but again.. I am not really trying to knock Hod, I just really detest presumption and scholarly inaccuracy.

 

[crossfire]

These are metaphorical meanderings with no basis in any sort of fact. If you think they are true, then they are dogma. The only difference is in my case, I admit that I sort of synthetically understand these ideas and I am more concerned with the bigger picture. I am searching for parallels, but not presuming what the ancients thought. What does it matter of these ancient toys if they are not props for you revisionist thinking? This is just an attempt to derive legitimacy from things completely non-related to the subjects at hand. You call me a pretender, but you are the one in the most precarious of positions with all these notions.

Qabalah has no aims whatsoever and is only a model, and moreover the western conception has no scholarly connections with the Jewish idea of the same thing. There is no correlation between Lucifer and Daath -- Daath is a Jewish Mystic term, and Lucifer isn't in their holy books. And the tree of life not being connected to the material world is garbage in any version of understanding -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malkuth. Even funnier, is that Daath really is the mystical state of oneness that Western LHP detests... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da'at, but would pose no problem for someone like me who follows the Eastern LHP idea.

Beyond the fact that this information is plain wrong... I see no reason to dig up the dinosaur... What purpose does it serve? I personally read on it just as an intellectual curiosity, but I back my knowledge with the few Jewish friends I have made over the years and tempered my understandings with the facts. I no longer see the Western reinterpretation of Qabalah as useful. But, I think it is sort of disrespectful to them to start tacking all of my ideas to their framework and I also don't see where it is necessary or needed. I try to understand what their thinking is not paste my ideas over them like graffiti -- I want to know the historical contexts of these matters and not just go on various re-imaginings. The problem with a model is it is always subject to being stuffed up with whatever crap the user of the system wants to paste on it, and that still doesn't make it useful.

There are reasons that deep spiritual creatures engross themselves in eastern ideas... It's that they haven't been completely contaminated by idiocy!

The Hawaiians have a model that resembles the Sephrit. Does that mean they stole it from the Jews?

 

[ThirtyThree]

The Hawaiians have a model that resembles the Sephit. Does that mean they stole it from the Jews?

Nothing new under the sun. Everything ends up recycled.

 

[crossfire]

Might be the case, but again.. I am not really trying to knock Hod, I just really detest presumption and scholarly inaccuracy.

**quickly swaddles the irony meter in a blanket to avoid shrapnel from flying about**

 

[Mindmaster]

The Hawaiians have a model that resembles the Sephit. Does that mean they stole it from the Jews?

The borrowings aren't the problem to me. It is the fabrications. Or, as @ThirtyThree there is a difference between reading something and reading into it. Like, trying to make it fit you ideas when it only has a very topical similarity. I don't hate Etu, but if he was the example of the top tier of development in Hod I'd pass. I've spoke with you a million times and we've always had civil discussions even where our views contrast drastically. He can do this too, but he doesn't want to.

 

[crossfire]

If Satanists were something I could respect, I would call myself by that title, No offense to you intended.

I agree that THEISTIC Satanists and Luciferians deserve to be called Satanists and Luciferians and not Atheists wearing excessive black eye liner and black clothing... and claiming they are self made gods. Well, not all "Satanists" wear the above. Some do though! Edgelords is your word for them, right?

And those who think that the whole theism/atheism dichotomy is a false dilemma deserve no names at all?

 

[ThirtyThree]

And those who think that the whole theism/atheism dichotomy is a false dilemma deserve no names at all?

Make your own and then make it your own.