[LHP only] What is left hand path?

[Sutekh]

Study human psychology, and I guarantee you'll change your position.

Psychology is quite interesting. I myself have a psychologist on which I have to visit at times to talk to her.

 

[1137]

You're going on about degrees of complexity, not whether they have the trait at all or not.

Your arguments are mostly emotional pleading for the supposed superiority of humans. If you want to accuse me of being "Christian-like", then you fit the bill, too, since Christianity generally teaches that humanity is the apex of creation, that only humans have souls and it's a common Christian belief that the universe only exists for our benefit and there's no life on other planets. This sort of thinking has dominated Western thought for over a millennium. Your thoughts on this are very mainstream.

You're one of the last people who should be telling anyone to study anything, since you know so little about your own field of study, let alone others. You don't even know much about biology or animal studies.

For the final time, my position is not human superiority, and if other species have a mind like our it does nothing to change my position. Humans don't need to be special. Knock it off with the straw men, this is clear as day.

 

[1137]

Psychology is quite interesting. I myself have a psychologist on which I have to visit at times to talk to her.

Nice! Everyone should have a therapist of some kind haha. My academic study of psychology, and especially my practice of those concepts, have completely reshaped how I understand us and our place in the world.

 

[1137]

You're going on about degrees of complexity, not whether they have the trait at all or not.

Your arguments are mostly emotional pleading for the supposed superiority of humans. If you want to accuse me of being "Christian-like", then you fit the bill, too, since Christianity generally teaches that humanity is the apex of creation, that only humans have souls and it's a common Christian belief that the universe only exists for our benefit and there's no life on other planets. This sort of thinking has dominated Western thought for over a millennium. Your thoughts on this are very mainstream.

You're one of the last people who should be telling anyone to study anything, since you know so little about your own field of study, let alone others. You don't even know much about biology or animal studies.

Also, you make constant claims about what I know and how I think. Could I bother you to ever support any of that?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

For the final time, my position is not human superiority, and if other species have a mind like our it does nothing to change my position. Humans don't need to be special. Knock it off with the straw men, this is clear as day.

You are either lying or forgetting what you have posted. You have gone on and on about how different humans are from other animals and denied that they can think. You obviously do view non-human animals as lesser than humans. You even posted that stupid quote saying that the universe is useless without humans.

 

[1137]

You are either lying or forgetting what you have posted. You have gone on and on about how different humans are from other animals and denied that they can think. You obviously do view non-human animals as lesser than humans. You even posted that stupid quote saying that the universe is useless without humans.

I only view animals as "less that human" in the same way as I view us as "less than tigers" because they are stronger than us. If you have evidence that other animals have advance language, medication/chemistry, varying religions, use abstract reasoning, etc and so on, please present it and I will go broke helping to make you famous for this massive, ground breaking discovery.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I only view animals as "less that human" in the same way as I view us as "less than tigers" because they are stronger than us. If you have evidence that other animals have advance language, medication/chemistry, varying religions, use abstract reasoning, etc and so on, please present it and I will go broke helping to make you famous for this massive, ground breaking discovery.

That all species differ from all other species is not an argument for superiority, inferiority or categorical difference. It's also not an argument that something outside the known realms of science was involved.

 

[1137]

That all species differ from all other species is not an argument for superiority, inferiority or categorical difference. It's also not an argument that something outside the known realms of science was involved.

And as I've said numerous times, I'm not arguing for superiority in any sense that you mean. You're arguing against a straw man.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

One reason being they are extinct while we remained.
I don't see your line of reasoning here anyway, they are relatives of humans and would be included in the 'evolved intelligence' quotient
But the main point you seem to be missing is that 'No Other species has Evolved in Intelligence as We Have' . . .

My line of reasoning..is that humans are not special. Exactly how long ago did set throw his magic lightning bolt of consciousness at us do you recon? Which branches of hominid got it and which didn't?

 

[Adramelek]

Yet there isn't really a hard and fast line. Non human animals of various sorts do almost everything we do, from bury and revisit their dead(elephants), expressive language(dolphins, various primates, elephants, whales, parrots), build and create(primates, birds, too many to name).

I just read today of a baboon that lived in a zoo for many years next to the ocean, where people did spear fishing. They released the thing into the wild eventually and stuck a tracker on it. Some time later they returned to see it living in a group of baboons...all of them spear fishing.

We aren't so special.

No doubt other animals are very intelligent and are capable of learning, hell my pit bull is smarter and has more personality than some people I know. My point is that as other animals possess heightened senses such as sight, sound, and smell, homo sapiens possess a more heightened sense of self and higher intellect. The how and why of the later two is something I doubt we would agree on, and are part of what makes "Setianism" a religion.

 

[Adramelek]

My line of reasoning..is that humans are not special. Exactly how long ago did set throw his magic lightning bolt of consciousness at us do you recon? Which branches of hominid got it and which didn't?

Its interesting that you brought this up because many Setians, including me, are of the position that humans are not the only species on Earth that were endowed, whether directly or indirectly, with what we call the "Gift of Set" or the "Black Flame". At this time there is no way of knowing.

 

[1137]

Its interesting that you brought this up because many Setians, including me, are of the position that humans are not the only species on Earth that were endowed, whether directly or indirectly, with what we call the "Gift of Set" or the "Black Flame". At this time there is no way of knowing.

I've been trying to explain this to @Satans_Serrated_Edge and @Saint Frankenstein for days. Good luck!

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Yes, explain your magical thinking. You can start by explaining what qualitatively separates that from a belief that Jesus died for your sins.

Both seem to sit on an even playing field epistemologically speaking, would they not?

 

[1137]

Yes, explain your magical thinking. You can start by explaining what qualitatively separates that from a belief that Jesus died for your sins.

Both seem to sit on an even playing field epistemologically speaking, would they not?

Magical thinking? We're simply discussing the mental capabilities of different species....

So you think that the fields of psychology or biology are as valid as belief in Christian myth, but I'm the one to laugh at?

 

[Adramelek]

Yes, explain your magical thinking. You can start by explaining what qualitatively separates that from a belief that Jesus died for your sins.

Both seem to sit on an even playing field epistemologically speaking, would they not?

Magickally man stands apart from nature. We could argue and debate this all day long and never come to a mutual conclusion, I doubt you could convince me nor I could convince you one way or the other. So what's the point?

 

[crossfire]

I only view animals as "less that human" in the same way as I view us as "less than tigers" because they are stronger than us. If you have evidence that other animals have advance language, medication/chemistry, varying religions, use abstract reasoning, etc and so on, please present it and I will go broke helping to make you famous for this massive, ground breaking discovery.

[satire] You have obviously not met any of the cats with whom I have shared territory. (Don't forget how the ancient Egyptian revered them.) [/satire]

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Magical thinking? We're simply discussing the mental capabilities of different species....

So you think that the fields of psychology or biology are as valid as belief in Christian myth, but I'm the one to laugh at?

So what exactly does biology or psychology have to do with man being supposedly endowed with special consciousness by a magical being?

You are too much dude...lol. You always put a smile on my face

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Magickally man stands apart from nature. We could argue and debate this all day long and never come to a mutual conclusion, I doubt you could convince me nor I could convince you one way or the other. So what's the point?

So, then, one could conclude there isn't any difference then. Keep the faith right?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't get why you're bringing magical thinking, gods, or human centricism into it.

You believe that Set is a deity that somehow gave humans an advanced psyche, right? The whole gift of the Black Flame, right? What I was originally arguing and what @Satans_Serrated_Edge is arguing is that human mental abilities have nothing to do with supernatural intervention. I was wondering if you had any evidence of this supernatural intervention. Then it got muddied by bickering over the issues of anthropocentrism and the cognitive abilities of other species.

 

[1137]

You believe that Set is a deity that somehow gave humans an advanced psyche, right? The whole gift of the Black Flame, right? What I was originally arguing and what @Satans_Serrated_Edge is arguing is that human mental abilities have nothing to do with supernatural intervention. I was wondering if you had any evidence of this supernatural intervention. Then it got muddied by bickering over the issues of anthropocentrism and the cognitive abilities of other species.

I've explicitly stated that the mind may be emergent within this thread. The gift of set does not need to be a literal, divine gift, though I sure couldn't say one way or the other. I certainly don't claim to have an answer to the mind body problem or the great leap forward or any such thing, and it honestly doesn't matter a whole lot to me. What matter is that, currently, humans have a partially unnatural mind and have to figure out how to deal with it.