If one is misinformed about any given subject, and unwittingly spreads that misinformation, does that make one a liar?
Discuss.
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Liar Liar
- Thread starter SalixIncendium
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- liar lying misinformation
If one is misinformed about any given subject, and unwittingly spreads that misinformation, does that make one a liar?
Discuss.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Not by definition. It must be done knowingly with an intent to deceive. If one remains knowingly ignorant then I would think there is an intent to decieve.
Kuzcotopia
If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
In Dante's Inferno, it's the difference between: Ignorance (reasonable, but lack knowledge), Incontinece (unreasonable because distractions and weakness), and Fraud (reasonable, but use it to take advantage of distractions and weakness in others).
Is that misinformation a function of a reasonable person but a lack of knowledge, or their sloth in failing to do any work to gain understanding before sharing false things?
It depends, but in the Information Age where you can knit a bubble of ignorance around yourself on purpose, I'd call that person Incontinent . . . And according to Dante, they're guilty.
I don't consider spreading false information to be lying if the one spreading it actually believes the information.
That said, is it irresponsible to spread information that hasn't been 'fact checked'? Yes, of course.
But now we go one deeper: what actually constitutes a 'fact check'? it almost always means some 'trusted authority' confirms that 'fact'.
But in the video, that 'trusted authority' was the guy's dad. So we get into legitimacy of the authority. And this is where things break down.
if you have a couple of political sides, each will promote its 'authorities' as valid and the opposing ones as invalid. That's where 'alternative facts' and 'false news' are coming from (and it happens from all sides).
Or, we have the creation/evolution debate where each side denies the authority of the other sides 'experts'.
So, is it lying to spread false information if you have 'fact checked' with an 'authority' which is wrong?
No, but you are still spreading false information and that is irresponsible (with the false authority carrying the bulk of that responsibility).
That said, is it irresponsible to spread information that hasn't been 'fact checked'? Yes, of course.
But now we go one deeper: what actually constitutes a 'fact check'? it almost always means some 'trusted authority' confirms that 'fact'.
But in the video, that 'trusted authority' was the guy's dad. So we get into legitimacy of the authority. And this is where things break down.
if you have a couple of political sides, each will promote its 'authorities' as valid and the opposing ones as invalid. That's where 'alternative facts' and 'false news' are coming from (and it happens from all sides).
Or, we have the creation/evolution debate where each side denies the authority of the other sides 'experts'.
So, is it lying to spread false information if you have 'fact checked' with an 'authority' which is wrong?
No, but you are still spreading false information and that is irresponsible (with the false authority carrying the bulk of that responsibility).
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
No. However, IMHO, making out like one knows what one is talking about when one in fact knows nothing on the subject, is it's own type of moral failing, at least as bad as lying with intent.
the sin of ignorance vs willful misrepresentation is the difference between medicine that might work and snake oil.
a willful liar doesn't believe in anyone else
Lying is characterized by an intent to deceive.
This can be done by knowingly presenting false information.
It can also be done by artful presenting of correct information,
in which case it's called "prevarication".
Of course, there are some immature angry posters here who
will call others dishonest just because they can't comprehend
how anyone could possibly disagree with them.
Who here has endured some petulant boob erupt with "Liar!"
just because they can't get their own way?
This can be done by knowingly presenting false information.
It can also be done by artful presenting of correct information,
in which case it's called "prevarication".
Of course, there are some immature angry posters here who
will call others dishonest just because they can't comprehend
how anyone could possibly disagree with them.
Who here has endured some petulant boob erupt with "Liar!"
just because they can't get their own way?
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Which brings us to the sub conscious.
Kuzcotopia
If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
Who's that? A comic book superhero?
NO dr who. All science.
The thought wouldn't have crossed my mind, no. That said, put downs don't cross my mind in general. Someone has to really earn them for such things to cross my mind. I don't think passing on alleged misinformation would qualify.
This does remind me of a story, though.
Once, many years ago, I was a member of some other forum community where a group of folks were on a crusade to correct "misinformation" about a particular Pagan religion. Much of the information they presented wasn't wrong. It was well-researched and of high quality, actually. Problem was, it was also very selective and ridden with an underlying agenda: the only true expression of this religion is the traditional form, and all progressive varieties are illegitimate. Information about progressive expressions of these religions was omitted, subverted, and oppressed. This group discouraged many religious seekers and viciously belittled anyone who disagreed with their perspective.
This tale serves as a cautionary against judging something as the spread of misinformation. Very often, it is not misinformation being spread per se, but differing ideological perspectives or agendas. This is the case with religion in particular, and the traditionalist-progressivist conflict is almost an inevitability.
Orbit
I'm a planet
It means you are spreading lies. It doesn't mean that lying is intrinsic to your personality.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I personally never use the word "liar" because it labels the entire person. The exception is that I have quoted both Jindal and Graham as calling Trump a "pathological liar".