Liberals Face Division Over Israel's Human Rights Violations

[Revoltingest]

Blinken is called "murderer"....

Antony Blinken and Lloyd Austin hearing interrupted by Gaza protesters

Amid chaotic scenes Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin were forced to sit silently as demonstrators chanted 'Ceasefire now!'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/politics/blinken-israel-visit/index.html

Excerpted....

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken visited Israel Thursday to pledge that the United States will never falter from its support for Israel as he condemned Hamas’ “litany of brutality and inhumanity” as evoking “the worst of ISIS.”

“The message that I bring to Israel is this: you may be strong enough on your own to defend yourself, but as long as America exists, you will never, ever have to,” Blinken said in remarks alongside Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Tel Aviv. “We will always be there by your side.”

If you support indiscriminate bombing that's killed
over 8,000 so far, then you & your fellow Democrats
are indeed complicit in murder.

 

[Revoltingest]

As I listen to NPR, I notice that during the many
interviews with grieving Israelis, there is the
occasional interview with a suffering Palestinian.
This is small progress.

 

[Bthoth]

Is that about the definition of "democratic"?
USA, for example, has a strong Christian bias.
And secondarily, it's biased towards religion
as opposed to atheism.

And russia by ratio to population is far more christian than the USA

How could it be otherwise when nearly every
politician is a believer, & 6 of 9 SCOTUS justices
are Catholic, eh.

Lots of people claim a religion, does not make the country a religious identifier.

That is the cross up, directly..... just because israel is a name of bible does not make the state a jewish nation. That identifier is what the leadership has made the state.
Perfectly put, Israel DOES NOT represent the Jews of the world. That fact is what should be confirmed globally so that the violence against Jews all over the world can end.

They are being attacked because of what israel is doing right now in palestine and the reason is the exact error in thinking that you are arguing with me about.

 

[Bthoth]

Blinken is called "murderer"....

Antony Blinken and Lloyd Austin hearing interrupted by Gaza protesters

Amid chaotic scenes Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin were forced to sit silently as demonstrators chanted 'Ceasefire now!'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/politics/blinken-israel-visit/index.html

Excerpted....

Nothing to do with GAZA protester/supporters.

The people (majority on the earth) are watching the atrocities and want US to stop funding the mess.

If you support indiscriminate bombing that's killed
over 8,000 so far, then you & your fellow Democrats
are indeed complicit in murder.

Siding against the atrocities does not make a person into a GAZA protester/supporter.

 

[Revoltingest]

And russia by ratio to population is far more christian than the USA

With an official church that supports the invasion of Ukraine.

Lots of people claim a religion, does not make the country a religious identifier.

We're discussing religious bias, which doesn't
require individual identification or an official
religion. Just a preponderance that influences
policies.

That is the cross up, directly..... just because israel is a name of bible does not make the state a jewish nation. That identifier is what the leadership has made the state.
Perfectly put, Israel DOES NOT represent the Jews of the world. That fact is what should be confirmed globally so that the violence against Jews all over the world can end.

I too see some independence between some Jews & Israel.
But religious bias is very strong there.

They are being attacked because of what israel is doing right now in palestine and the reason is the exact error in thinking that you are arguing with me about.

I referred to Blinken & Democrats...not
you in that post (which didn't quote or
reference you).

 

[Stevicus]

Israel screwed up massively, and now the world has to deal with the results. There is plenty of blame for both Israel and Hamas in this conflict, and I think the priority needs to be protecting innocent families. It doesn't have to be political from a humanitarian approach.

I don't think they'll ever find any workable solution. It's a war that never ends, but has occasional lulls.

That is a problem for any political party that has diversity, there will be a lot more grey area to manage and consider. In a crisis people want more certainty, and seem to apply more balck/white thinking, so they will pick a side instead of being neutral. I am quite neutral in this war since I oppose the exessive bombing Israel is doing, and there not being more humanitarian aid to protect families caught in the fighting.

It's hard to remain truly neutral on something like this, even if we try to see both sides. I agree that they should take a more humanitarian approach and keep the innocent families and children out of it. But realistically, that never really happens in war, especially a war which has been ongoing and handed down from generation to generation.

To my mind I think the oppressed can include the people of Israel who had been under the thumb of Netanyahu and the conservatives for many years. Those hard line policies have probably led to the lack of solutions with Gaza.

Part of the problem is that, ever since the Israelis occupied and took over those regions (formerly belonging to Jordan, Egypt, and Syria), they've been in some kind of political limbo. Permanent war refugees for a war that never ends. There are some unique characteristics to this, given the history and religious significance of the region. It's not like other wars which might have some similarities, but not quite the same as this.

 

[Jimmy]

Agreed. In that location that would be almost miraculous.

Funny part is, the jews, christians and muslims did live side by side for over 1000 yrs just fine.

It was the creation of a bias to create a state labeled as one religious identifier that ruined it.

Nations have to be made sometime.

Democratic nations do not have a religious bias. Theocracy does.

after Israel was made a nation palestine should’ve just accepted it no? To avoid all this ********

 

[Bthoth]

We're discussing religious bias, which doesn't
require individual identification or an official
religion. Just a preponderance that influences
policies.

Correct. And the evidence is clear. Israel has and is doing more damage to Jews than anything since ww2

I too see some independence between some Jews & Israel.
But religious bias is very strong there.

Sure the label is used but not the religion

 

[Bthoth]

Nations have to be made sometime.

Sure..... Palesitne?

after Israel was made a nation palestine should’ve just accepted it no? To avoid all this ********

Most of Israelis are palesinians... no matter the religion.

The ******it is over that stupid mount.

 

[Stevicus]

A problem...
People see their own oppression,
but are blind to imposing it upon others.

OK.

That is a problem. It seems to be a recurring theme throughout history.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Why do you think their culture raises new radicals?
If hitting "them in the gut" hasn't worked yet, why
would it work now?

They teach their young to fight. Hamas does I mean, not normal Muslims. What else might work? They have to do something.

 

[Bthoth]

They teach their young to fight. Hamas does I mean, not normal Muslims. What else might work? They have to do something.

That's part of the problem within GAZA and palestine, the fathers are often dead from the oppression and violence. The majority are orphans with few parents helping them and learn from the 'streets'. The GAZA median age is 18 yrs old and about 38% are children under 14 yrs old.

 

[Heyo]

I just think Israel wants to make sure that nothing like October 7 happens again. Again, I’m not saying it’s right but they’re reacting to what happened.

They aren't reacting, they are overreacting. That is the danger of terrorism. A small group of people fight a system only they see as oppressive. The system overreacts and becomes more oppressive. More people see the system as oppressive and start fighting.
It worked for Baader-Meinhof in Germany. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Israel is becoming that what Hamas is proclaiming to fight.

 

[Bthoth]

They aren't reacting, they are overreacting. That is the danger of terrorism. A small group of people fight a system only they see as oppressive. The system overreacts and becomes more oppressive. More people see the system as oppressive and start fighting.
It worked for Baader-Meinhof in Germany. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Israel is becoming that what Hamas is proclaiming to fight.

israel created the apartheid,
HAMAS is literally an israeli creation.
Both are born from zionism

 

[Jimmy]

They aren't reacting, they are overreacting. That is the danger of terrorism. A small group of people fight a system only they see as oppressive. The system overreacts and becomes more oppressive. More people see the system as oppressive and start fighting.
It worked for Baader-Meinhof in Germany. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Israel is becoming that what Hamas is proclaiming to fight.

Yeah it’s a sad state amid affairs

 

[icehorse]

I've been wondering if / when this would happen.
Israel has managed public relations such that its
support here has been rock solid & unquestioned.
Hamas's hideous attack has up-ended this foundation
by provoking Israel to over-react... a far more hideous
response....a "ten eyes for an eye" kind of vengeance
upon the populace. This appears to be their design.

Hamas has waged this entire war on war-crime strategies. The use of civilians has been Hamas's de facto since day one.

So what do you propose? Should the world abandon the whole idea of war crimes?

 

[Little Dragon]

Hamas's hideous attack has up-ended this foundation
by provoking Israel to over-react... a far more hideous
response....a "ten eyes for an eye" kind of vengeance
upon the populace. This appears to be their design.

I smell Kremlin and Wagner involvement.
Call me a suspicious Simon...
Colour me paranoid...

 

[Little Dragon]

So what do you propose? Should the world abandon the whole idea of war crimes?

I don't think we should no. If we have to sanction Israel, if it violates international law, which seems more than apparent at this stage, then we have to, or the system will fail and the rule of law will degrade, to the benefit of dictators everywhere. The israeli government would have forced our collective hands. Which they surely would know and would have known. We also have to protect all civilians in the region. I would support an intervention, if, we also intervened in Syria Ukraine and Yemen and everywhere else where murderous tyrants and raging leaders act with excessive force, with scant regard for the rule of law and not to mention human rights.

Until there is some kind of shift in US policy, this issue isnt getting better, and if the US really cared about Israel's future, then she would put a restraining hand upon Israel's shoulder, in her time of rage and fury.

 

[icehorse]

I don't think we should no. If we have to sanction Israel, if it violates international law, which seems more than apparent at this stage, then we have to, or the system will fail and the rule of law will degrade, to the benefit of dictators everywhere. The israeli government would have forced our collective hands. Which they surely would know and would have known. We also have to protect all civilians in the region. I would support an intervention, if, we also intervened in Syria Ukraine and Yemen and everywhere else where murderous tyrants and raging leaders act with excessive force, with scant regard for the rule of law and not to mention human rights.

Until there is some kind of shift in US policy, this issue isnt getting better, and if the US really cared about Israel's future, then she would put a restraining hand upon Israel's shoulder, in her time of rage and fury.

I mostly agree, but why does this fall solely on the shoulders of the US?

 

[Little Dragon]

I mostly agree, but why does this fall solely on the shoulders of the US?

They have the most influence. They are Israel's main backer. The US also vetoes practically all UNSC resolutions against Israel. In other words, the US has accountability, for Israeli actions. To a degree.