Libertarians, which would you give up?

[Aqualung]

If forced to make a descision to either give up your social liberalism (and become a republican/conservative) or give up your fiscal conservatism (and become a democrate/liberal) which would it be?

I personally can't decide.

 

[Wandered Off]

I'd have to think about it a while longer. Off the top of my head, I think much of social conservatism amounts to repression, and I consider that kind of repression worse than economic repression of giving up fiscal conservatism - that's just money.

 

[powder21]

That's funny because it's basically the same question I asked myself when trying to decide. I chose to keep my "social liberalism" and become a Democrat, though I think I will probably regret either choice.

 

[Runt]

Ewwww, do I have to choose?

Okay. I guess I'd give up the fiscal conservatism, if I absolutely had to give something up... I'd rather be free and dirt poor than rich but controlled.

 

[Aqualung]

Here's something I thought up:

With social conservatism, you still have the same choices, but some of the consequences are artificial. For example, a prostitute still has the ability to be a prostitute, with the real possible consequences of easy money, stds, and violence, plus the added artificial possibility of arrest. But with fiscal liberalism, your money is taken from you before you even see it (if you're working for a straight employer, anyway). For the most part, you don't have a choice, not even an artificially charged choice.

What do you guys think about that random musing?

 

[Runt]

Here's something I thought up:

With social conservatism, you still have the same choices, but some of the consequences are artificial. For example, a prostitute still has the ability to be a prostitute, with the real possible consequences of easy money, stds, and violence, plus the added artificial possibility of arrest. But with fiscal liberalism, your money is taken from you before you even see it (if you're working for a straight employer, anyway). For the most part, you don't have a choice, not even an artificially charged choice.

What do you guys think about that random musing?

Those artificial consequences aren't to be ignored, however.

 

[Aqualung]

Those artificial consequences aren't to be ignored, however.

No, they do make the choice more difficult, that's true.

 

[SoyLeche]

I'd keep the fiscal conservatism (but I'm really more of a conservative than a libertarian anyway, but I'm getting there )

This article explains my position better than I could:

RealClearPolitics - Articles - Good News: The World Gets Better

 

[Aqualung]

Good article. Thanks.

[Lindsey] emphasizes that the "live and let live" ethic arose only when material security could be taken for granted. As people worried less about where their next meal would come from, they had time to contemplate and develop more enlightened attitudes.

"American capitalism is derided for its superficial banality, yet it has unleashed profound, convulsive social change," he writes. "Condemned as mindless materialism, it has burst loose a flood tide of spiritual yearning. The civil rights movement and the sexual revolution, environmentalism and feminism, the fitness and health-care boom and the opening of the gay closet, the withering of censorship and the rise of a 'creative class' of 'knowledge workers' -- all are the progeny of widespread prosperity."

...

America is rich, and because of that it is humane, with increasing numbers of people developing the tolerance that the intelligentsia says Americans should practice. Why doesn't this good news get the attention it deserves?

 

[Engyo]

If forced to make a descision to either give up your social liberalism (and become a republican/conservative) or give up your fiscal conservatism (and become a democrate/liberal) which would it be?

I personally can't decide.

I'd much rather give up a political system that forces such choices on voters, and instead decide on a political system that gives us real candidates that actually represent our views and interests. Great fantasy, huh?

 

[Aqualung]

I'd much rather give up a political system that forces such choices on voters, and instead decide on a political system that gives us real candidates that actually represent our views and interests. Great fantasy, huh?

I'm sure we would all want that, which is why it's not nearly as interesting a question, and therefore why I didn't even bother to start a thread on that. So, if forced to make the choice (we all understand that it's not a choice that anybody would want to have to be forced to make), which would you rather choose? It's okay if you have no preference.

 

[Engyo]

I tend to cast my votes against the candidate or platform I feel will be the most damaging in any given race, rather than voting *for* someone or some platform I am not willing to support.

 

[Mathematician]

What, no love for libertarian socialists?

 

[Aqualung]

What, no love for libertarian socialists?

I don't know enough about libertarian socialism to even know if my question excludes them.

 

[Aqualung]

I tend to cast my votes against the candidate or platform I feel will be the most damaging in any given race, rather than voting *for* someone or some platform I am not willing to support.

Yeah, that kind of seems the way I do it, too. Looking back on your votes, though, is it possible for you to see a pattern that the most damaging also tends to be more fiscally conservative, or that the most damaging tends to be more socially liberal?

 

[Wandered Off]

What, no love for libertarian socialists?

Maybe another thread is appropriate for this, but I still don't understand how the term "libertarian socialist" is not self-contradictory. Would you mind going over that again? I'm kind of dense.

 

[Engyo]

What, no love for libertarian socialists?

Find me a Libertarian Socialist candidate in Texas, and you might just convince me to vote *for* somebody; but I ain't holdin' my breath.

 

[Engyo]

Yeah, that kind of seems the way I do it, too. Looking back on your votes, though, is it possible for you to see a pattern that the most damaging also tends to be more fiscally conservative, or that the most damaging tends to be more socially liberal?

The most damaging seems to tend more fiscally conservative, although the fiscally conservative part isn't what I consider dangerous. It's the ones who claim fiscal conservatism while running up record deficits I object to.

 

[Aqualung]

The most damaging seems to tend more fiscally conservative, although the fiscally conservative part isn't what I consider dangerous. It's the ones who claim fiscal conservatism while running up record deficits I object to.

Ok, I see. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[eudaimonia]

If forced to make a descision to either give up your social liberalism (and become a republican/conservative) or give up your fiscal conservatism (and become a democrate/liberal) which would it be?

I personally can't decide.

It would be equally bad either way. It would mean that my philosophy of life has been compromised.


eudaimonia,

Mark