Life ants and the self

[sandandfoam]

I was watching a really interesting program on telly about swarms last night. The manner in which intelligence emerged from ants as they swarmed was particularly amazing.
It minded me of how a human organism is built of the multitudes of simultaneous lives within it.
Is the intelligence that emerges from a human in a sense the same as that which emerges from a swarm of ants (or for that matter starlings, wildebeast or any other swarm you please)?

 

[monta]

Super swarms ftw!!!!

The flocks of birds and bats were amazing, weren't they?

I'm really afraid of fire ants though I feel they are one of the animals that are in competition for earth dominance with hoomans.

 

[sandandfoam]

Super swarms ftw!!!!

The flocks of birds and bats were amazing, weren't they?

I'm really afraid of fire ants though I feel they are one of the animals that are in competition for earth dominance with hoomans.

Yay!!
I'm delighted someone saw it Wasn't it so cool?
The starlings were amazing altogether.
The thing that really took my time was the ants when the water started to rise. Something else altogether.
The wildebeast and the zebra crossing the river were amazing too.
I'd love to watch it again.

 

[ellenjanuary]

No, but the lack of intelligence in the "mob mentality" is.

 

[Meow Mix]

I was watching a really interesting program on telly about swarms last night. The manner in which intelligence emerged from ants as they swarmed was particularly amazing.
It minded me of how a human organism is built of the multitudes of simultaneous lives within it.
Is the intelligence that emerges from a human in a sense the same as that which emerges from a swarm of ants (or for that matter starlings, wildebeast or any other swarm you please)?

That's precisely what emergence is, yeah. Put neurons together in the right way and the evidence indicates you'll get a mind.

However as someone else pointed out, put humans together and you'll get a drooling mass of idiots

 

[Nepenthe]

I'd suggest reading anything by E.O. Wilson, particularly his excellent Superorganism which examines how ant colonies composed of individuals, acting on a hardwired altruism, are a stepping stone between the organism and a species.

I actually just wanted to post here so I could use the word myrmecology at some point. :yes:

 

[monta]

I'd suggest reading anything by E.O. Wilson, particularly his excellent Superorganism which examines how ant colonies composed of individuals, acting on a hardwired altruism, are a stepping stone between the organism and a species.

I actually just wanted to post here so I could use the word myrmecology at some point. :yes:

Does Superorganism by E.O. Wilson rhyme and have cool pictures? This will be pertinent to whether or not I will read it. :areyoucra

Is the fear that ants are trying to take over the world myrmecophobia? Is the fear that giant ants or to give them their scientific name GiAnts!!! are going to take over the world meglomyrmecophobia because I have both of those if it is. Is the fear that giant Irish ants are going to take over the world meglomyrmecmickophobia because I definitely have that. Is the fear that giant Irish ants with out of control egos meglomaniacmelgomyrmecmickophobia?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Doesn't the queen ant just tell all the other ants what to do?

 

[Nepenthe]

Doesn't the queen ant just tell all the other ants what to do?

That's how it works with Queen Elizabeth and the Irish.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

That's how it works with Queen Elizabeth and the Irish.

The problem with Ireland, is that it's full of ants.

 

[PolyHedral]

The OP is discussed quite a lot in the book Godel, Escher, Bach, and the short answer is "Yes."

 

[monta]

The problem with Ireland, is that it's full of ants.

 

[truseeker]

There is an ant nest in my back yard. Hundreds of ants, maybe thousands, live there. Sometimes I watch for a few minutes as they scurry in and out of the nest going about their ant business. I realize that I hold the power of life or death over them. I could sprinkle crumbs of food near the nest so that they would have plenty to eat. I could stomp my foot on them and probably kill several at one blow. I could even spray poison into the nest and wipe them all out in a matter of minutes. And then I wonder if they think of me as some kind of “god.” Maybe they pray to me to be kind to them and forget about the poison. Maybe they have little statues of me somewhere down inside the nest. Then I realize that there is such a vast difference between their little ant brains and my human brain that it is actually impossible for me to have an idea what they might be thinking. They may not even know I exist.

Now, why would I be concerned with an ant nest in my yard? Because sometimes I wonder if the whole earth, with its billions of people, might not be just an ant nest in God’s yard. He certainly holds the power of life or death over us. He can make sure our crops are plentiful so we have enough to eat. He could send a few lightning bolts and kill a few of us. And if He really wanted to, He could wipe out every person on earth in minutes. Many of us pray to Him to treat us kindly. Many have statues in our houses. And others of us are not sure He even exists. Almost everyone who believes in Him says that He is a kind and loving God. But there is war and crime and hate all around us. Why would a kind and loving God put us in such conditions? But, wouldn’t God’s brain be so much different from our weak little human brains that He might not even have any idea what we are thinking? Maybe we are fooling ourselves when we think God watches our every move and really cares about what happens to us. Maybe to God we are as small and insignificant as ants.

 

[Willamena]

I was watching a really interesting program on telly about swarms last night. The manner in which intelligence emerged from ants as they swarmed was particularly amazing.
It minded me of how a human organism is built of the multitudes of simultaneous lives within it.

Brilliant (again!). This puts me in mind of one image of "the myriad dharmas" that Zen reading presented.

 

[Quagmire]

I was watching a really interesting program on telly about swarms last night. The manner in which intelligence emerged from ants as they swarmed was particularly amazing.
It minded me of how a human organism is built of the multitudes of simultaneous lives within it.
Is the intelligence that emerges from a human in a sense the same as that which emerges from a swarm of ants (or for that matter starlings, wildebeast or any other swarm you please)?

In a sense, but the swarms that make up our consciousness seldom cooperate so well.

I wish the starlings of my own psyche would learn to fly in formation.

IMO, more often than not the human mind is more akin to a swarm of agitated bees.

 

[Penumbra]

I was watching a really interesting program on telly about swarms last night. The manner in which intelligence emerged from ants as they swarmed was particularly amazing.
It minded me of how a human organism is built of the multitudes of simultaneous lives within it.
Is the intelligence that emerges from a human in a sense the same as that which emerges from a swarm of ants (or for that matter starlings, wildebeast or any other swarm you please)?

Although both human intelligence and swarm intelligence rely on the same basic concept of simple things working together to produce a complex thing, I don't think human intelligence and swarm intelligence are very similar. I've never seen anything to indicate that swarms have any inherent consciousness, but humans do. Things can be fairly "intelligent" without being conscious.

That's precisely what emergence is, yeah. Put neurons together in the right way and the evidence indicates you'll get a mind.

However as someone else pointed out, put humans together and you'll get a drooling mass of idiots

It's ironic how it works out like that.

Group a bunch of simple things together in the right way, and you get a complex thing. But then if you group a bunch of those complex things together in basically any way, you get a simple thing.

 

[Meow Mix]

It's ironic how it works out like that.

Group a bunch of simple things together in the right way, and you get a complex thing. But then if you group a bunch of those complex things together in basically any way, you get a simple thing.

Maybe it's like multiplying imaginary numbers. Group a bunch of groups of people together and maybe you'll get intelligence again. Except i^3 = -1, so maybe you'd get negative intelligence. *slaps self*

 

[Falvlun]

I did not see the program, but I have been entranced watching starlings before. It is just so beautiful. There was this lovely field over looking a marsh, and I would stand there for half hours at a time just watching them swoop down, and settle, only to startle and rise again as one. Truly mesmerising and one of the most beautiful things I have had the pleasure to see.

 

[Penumbra]

Maybe it's like multiplying imaginary numbers. Group a bunch of groups of people together and maybe you'll get intelligence again. Except i^3 = -1, so maybe you'd get negative intelligence. *slaps self*

Well yeah, and an example of a group of groups is the US Congress, and they certainly have negative intelligence. Maybe if we multiply it by itself one more time, we'll get a positive number, like how it works out with i.

 

[Meow Mix]

Well yeah, and an example of a group of groups is the US Congress, and they certainly have negative intelligence. Maybe if we multiply it by itself one more time, we'll get a positive number, like how it works out with i.

That would be the UN, and it's questionable whether or not that's a positive number