Brian2
Veteran Member
Nor need it. If the idea isn't needed to account for what we can observe, we don't have any reason to include it in our models ofreality and how it works.
It is not know if spirit is needed or not.
There are two: The Two Creations in Genesis - Bible Odyssey
Genesis 2 is a story focusing on God's creation of humanity in a creation that already existed.
https://www.bibleodyssey.org/passages/related-articles/the-two-creations-in-genesis/
Correct. That is consistent with what you responded to: "at this point in time, there is no evidence that needs an intelligent designer to account for, so adding one to the narrative adds useless complexity, useless meaning adding no predictive or explanatory power."
At this point an intelligent designer is need to account for the genetic system.
The cause of you opening your hand preceded the appearance of the volume.
Simultaneous.
No, it is not. I've already explained why that doesn't make sense. Does your god think? Then it changes over time. As soon as you say existing out of time, you are contradicting yourself the way 'married bachelor' does. To exist is to pass through a series of consecutive instants.
We don't know what timelessness is, we have not experienced it.
Maybe knowing replaces thinking/reasoning.
Do abstract concepts like love, life, spirit, knowing, being etc need space to exist?
No, the Age of Reason was the result of the rise of humanism. The idea that the world was rational and comprehensible doesn't come from the Bible. That begins with the ancient Greeks, as I explained to you here last September:
"In the West, rational skepticism was first introduced by the ancient Greek philosophers, whose skepticism about the claims that natural events were punishments from capricious gods led to free speculation about reality. Thales (624 BC - 546 BC) suggested that everything was a form of water, which was the only substance he knew of capable of existing as solid, liquid and gas. What is significant was his willingness to try to explain the workings of nature without invoking the supernatural or appealing to the ancients and their dicta. The more profound implication was that man might be capable of understanding nature, which might operate according to comprehensible rules that he might discover."
It became science when observation was added centuries later. Aristotle famously and erroneously proclaimed that heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones without testing the claim.
And it's unsurprising that most scientists were Christian, since it was the work of these scientists that made first deism and then atheism tenable. But their science didn't come from their Bibles, which were already centuries old by then. It came from free speculation - the same thing Thales did - but now with experimentation (rationalism became empiricism).
It was Christianity which led the way in experimentation and observation of nature, and that seemed to be because of their view of a rational God whom men could understand and understand His works because they are rational and we are rational creatures.
Did you mean analyzed empirically (experienced through the senses and understood by the memory and reasoning faculty)? Evidence is also my criteria for belief in daily life. But yes, anything that isn't sufficiently justified by the rules for evaluating evidence is not believed.
There are different topics of study and different approaches to each. You want the rules for the study of science to be applicable for the study of God.
Sound conclusions are the result of valid reasoning applied to evidence (or premises). They are correct statements in the same way that correct sums are the result of valid reasoning (the rules of addition) applied to addends. If you follow the method without error, you are guaranteed a correct result, just life if you follow correct driving instructions, you will arrive at your destination every time. In each case, there is a correct path to follow (literally or figuratively) to derive correct (sound) conclusions, all other paths leading elsewhere. That is the power of critical thinking, and why those that understand it and have developed proficiency in it become uninterested in other way of deciding what is true about the world. It's why the skeptic doesn't accept biblical reports of resurrection. They don't pass that test.
Reasoning is good but if you make a mistake at the beginning, it can follow you through to the end. In this case skeptics make a mistake in initially deciding that God is not needed and everything else falls off the cliff after that.
As Francis Bacon said: I had rather believe all the fables in the Legend, and the Talmud, and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind. And therefore, God never wrought miracle, to convince atheism, because his ordinary works convince it. It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion. For while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them, confederate and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity.