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Life is suffering?
- Thread starter Antibush5
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Most people join suffering to pain.
(pain and suffering...as if they cannot be separated.)
But I heard someone say to 'suffer' is to 'allow'.
So every day hardships....work and injury...
would be the pain of life.
Suffering is more to what you tolerate around you.
At some point, your patience and tolerance will fail.
Then comes strife.
Strife turns to conflict.
Conflict can turn to war.
Having to exert yourself for what you need is the pain of life.
Having to suffer is how tolerant you can be to others.
(pain and suffering...as if they cannot be separated.)
But I heard someone say to 'suffer' is to 'allow'.
So every day hardships....work and injury...
would be the pain of life.
Suffering is more to what you tolerate around you.
At some point, your patience and tolerance will fail.
Then comes strife.
Strife turns to conflict.
Conflict can turn to war.
Having to exert yourself for what you need is the pain of life.
Having to suffer is how tolerant you can be to others.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Work hard, play hard. That's how I see it.
Everyone's different. Some people absolutely GROOVE on hard work. My husband is one of those people. His work schedule is two weeks on and two weeks off. When he's not working for pay, he's working like a field hand around our property, for no pay. To him, work is not about the pay, it's about the rewards of hard work. Those rewards to him are a college education for his son, great family vacations, a nice house, good dependable vehicles for his family, and a well stocked pantry and refrigerator. To someone else, the rewards may be different.
To me, work is not a curse - it's a tool. I mean, there's something to be said for being able to simply walk across the dirt floor of your grass hut (stepping over your wives and kids who are sleeping on that floor), out the flap of material that's covering the opening, and picking a mango off the tree for breakfast - but you have to have good teeth in order to really enjoy that mango - and tooth maintenance is pretty expensive. If you want to move past the grass hut point, you have to put in some regular hours.
I enjoy my work. Sure I enjoy my time off too - but it wouldn't be as sweet if I didn't have the work to balance it. And I wouldn't be able to, for instance, take a vacation in Europe, if I didn't work hard for it.
Everyone's different. Some people absolutely GROOVE on hard work. My husband is one of those people. His work schedule is two weeks on and two weeks off. When he's not working for pay, he's working like a field hand around our property, for no pay. To him, work is not about the pay, it's about the rewards of hard work. Those rewards to him are a college education for his son, great family vacations, a nice house, good dependable vehicles for his family, and a well stocked pantry and refrigerator. To someone else, the rewards may be different.
To me, work is not a curse - it's a tool. I mean, there's something to be said for being able to simply walk across the dirt floor of your grass hut (stepping over your wives and kids who are sleeping on that floor), out the flap of material that's covering the opening, and picking a mango off the tree for breakfast - but you have to have good teeth in order to really enjoy that mango - and tooth maintenance is pretty expensive. If you want to move past the grass hut point, you have to put in some regular hours.
I enjoy my work. Sure I enjoy my time off too - but it wouldn't be as sweet if I didn't have the work to balance it. And I wouldn't be able to, for instance, take a vacation in Europe, if I didn't work hard for it.
Hi Antibush5
Before a person comes up to that statement in life, a person may blame others or themselves for the suffering in the world.
Suffering goes hand-in-hand with life, from the SD perspective, suffering can be a consequence of our desires. Desire is natural, it is "life", so the recognition that suffering is natural helps to face the "issue" and find a solution to it.
Work is not suffering. Out attitude to it is what makes work suffering. The desire to not work or to avoid suffering is still a desire. It is desire which must be understood to remove suffering.
In the Bhagavad Gita it is explained that man cannot stop acting. Man must continuously move, even when still he may be thinking, dreaming, sleeping. For this reason we must always act - always work. As you say, all of one's life.
Before a person comes up to that statement in life, a person may blame others or themselves for the suffering in the world.
Suffering goes hand-in-hand with life, from the SD perspective, suffering can be a consequence of our desires. Desire is natural, it is "life", so the recognition that suffering is natural helps to face the "issue" and find a solution to it.
Work is not suffering. Out attitude to it is what makes work suffering. The desire to not work or to avoid suffering is still a desire. It is desire which must be understood to remove suffering.
In the Bhagavad Gita it is explained that man cannot stop acting. Man must continuously move, even when still he may be thinking, dreaming, sleeping. For this reason we must always act - always work. As you say, all of one's life.
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no-body
Well-Known Member
Just remember there is a translation issue, unnecessary suffering is more accurate and it does not imply some superhuman ability to withstand/not feel pain either, which a lot of people presume.
I think a simple definition is if you stick to the "middle" of neither going too high nor too low in your actions you can avoid a lot of unnecessary consequences.
When you delve deeper into it, it is the freedom to become unattached from ego, the thought that we are the little voice in our head the "imagined I" and to fully be in the moment (the sweetness of life/God) no matter what happens, good or bad. This is twisted by people who haven't really studied eastern spirituality to mean a hedonistic, forget about all responsibilities and others and focus on yourself and your needs in the moment which is not what it means at all. When there is no longer an ego driving you, truly compassionate and meaningful works can begin.
I think a simple definition is if you stick to the "middle" of neither going too high nor too low in your actions you can avoid a lot of unnecessary consequences.
When you delve deeper into it, it is the freedom to become unattached from ego, the thought that we are the little voice in our head the "imagined I" and to fully be in the moment (the sweetness of life/God) no matter what happens, good or bad. This is twisted by people who haven't really studied eastern spirituality to mean a hedonistic, forget about all responsibilities and others and focus on yourself and your needs in the moment which is not what it means at all. When there is no longer an ego driving you, truly compassionate and meaningful works can begin.
I wouldn't call life as suffering, but rather the great Work of Becoming the totality of one's absolute Being. Which includes the restlessness of the soul and the pleasure and pain of unique existence. Life is not an easy Path, however, the rewards far exceed the turmoil and choas inherent in the process of Self-Evolution, i.e. Xeper.
/Adramelek\
/Adramelek\
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Look up dukkha on Wikipedia. Good article, for once, except for a few details.
Also, besides not having meaningful work, isn't life suffering because of: wars, poverty, disasters, crime, injustice, sickness and enemy death?
According to the Scripture at Matthew [24v14] all suffering is soon to end.
Once the good news of God's kingdom is proclaimed world wide, on a global scale, will come the end of all badness and suffering on earth.
I think those that want to bring ruin [suffering] on earth will be brought to ruin because Revelation [11v18 B] mentions God will involve himself into mankind's affairs, and as Proverbs [2vs21,22] mentions only the upright will remain on earth.
Good points.
In my opinion most wars, crime, injustice comes from desire for something others have or enforcing our self-identity on others, which is just desire.
Sickness is of the body, however it can come through laziness and the desire to not look after oneself adequately.
Poverty is the worse, look to those "with surplus" to explain those "without enough". I don't mean just individuals, but companies stock pilling food or other resources to drive up demand or sustain prices i.e. desire!
Very interesting Onkara that you say 'desire' because Bible writer James agrees with your conclusion.
James wrote from what source are there wars and from what source are there fights among you? Are they not from this source, namely, from your cravings for sensual pleasure that carry on conflict in your members?
You desire, and yet do not have. You go on murdering and coveting,
and yet you are not able to obtain, You go on fighting and waging war.
.......you are asking for a wrong purpose that you may expend it upon your cravings for sensual pleasure.
Well put.
Kriya Yogi
Dharma and Love for God
Life isn't suffering. Life is consciousness. In other words our perspective is what determines whether we suffer or not. Great Yogi's teach us to raise one's consciousness so much that no amount of pain or pleasure can consume you or touch you. Some people's hardships are another person's good circumstance. Remember when you think you have it bad someone else might much rather be in your shoes.
Remember this too as the main point to it all. God allows suffering on this plain to act as a prod to remember that this is not our true home. He wants us to come back home to him within our beings so no suffering can ever touch us again.
Remember this too as the main point to it all. God allows suffering on this plain to act as a prod to remember that this is not our true home. He wants us to come back home to him within our beings so no suffering can ever touch us again.
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As I remember Adam's true home was: earth.
According to Genesis Adam and Eve would continue to live forever on earth if obedient to God's way of ruling.
Sinless Adam wasn't touched by any suffering on earth.
Adam did not exist before he was created on earth.
Adam ceased to exist anywhere after he died.
Angelic creation's true home is heaven.
Mankind's creation's true home is earth.
According to Scripture only some go to heaven, whereas the majority of mankind will remain on earth. Most being resurrected on earth starting with Jesus peaceful 0ne-thousand year reign over earth.
Those that go to heaven will rule with Christ for a thousand years. Rule over earthly subjects that Jesus will have for sea to sea to the ends of the earth.
-Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10; Psalm 72v8
Otherright
Otherright
This is the subject matter of the Four Noble Truths that the Buddha taught.
1. Life is suffering.
2. Suffering is caused by attachment.
3. There is a cessation for suffering.
4. The 8-Fold Path is the way to end suffering.
Life is suffering comes from the idea that we will experience dissatisfaction, sadness, and suffering in our lives. The Buddha called this Dhukka. This suffering is usually, but not always, our own faults, as it is caused by our attachments and our decisions.
A simple example; let's say you watch a lot of TV and you really enjoy it. The cable goes out. This makes you feel dissatisfied, maybe even a little depressed. It was because of your attachment, that you've created your suffering.
Saying life is suffering is the first step to understanding that our decisions and attachments can cause us pain.
Kriya Yogi
Dharma and Love for God
If this is what you believe then that's fine. I tend to not take all of what the bible says as literal. It was rewritten many times and many things were explained in allegories or almost riddle like form. Many things aren't to be taken literal.
Kriya Yogi-
You are very observant and quite true 'many things aren't to be taken literal'.
Often context and setting helps one discern if literal or not.
Also, according to Scripture Jesus would Not talk to the crowds without an illustration [parable] -Matthew 13vs34,35]
No illustration [parable] is literal, but in mental picture form to teach a point.
Since the Bible is not written in ABC order one must look at it by subject or topic arrangement. In other words, look up one thing at a time and compare that with what each of the writers had to say on that particular subject or topic.
So, by comparing Bible verses or passages with corresponding or parallel verses helps give a more complete picture of what the writers are trying to convey to us.
Back in King James' day only a few manuscripts were available for use to translate Scripture into English. Today many more manuscripts are available for comparison.
So, there is a big difference between recognizing minor mistakes that crept into copies of Bible texts and dismissing the Bible as a whole as being re-written.
Do you agree with the expression that there is more suffering or sadness, more tears shed on earth then there is water in the ocean?
You are very observant and quite true 'many things aren't to be taken literal'.
Often context and setting helps one discern if literal or not.
Also, according to Scripture Jesus would Not talk to the crowds without an illustration [parable] -Matthew 13vs34,35]
No illustration [parable] is literal, but in mental picture form to teach a point.
Since the Bible is not written in ABC order one must look at it by subject or topic arrangement. In other words, look up one thing at a time and compare that with what each of the writers had to say on that particular subject or topic.
So, by comparing Bible verses or passages with corresponding or parallel verses helps give a more complete picture of what the writers are trying to convey to us.
Back in King James' day only a few manuscripts were available for use to translate Scripture into English. Today many more manuscripts are available for comparison.
So, there is a big difference between recognizing minor mistakes that crept into copies of Bible texts and dismissing the Bible as a whole as being re-written.
Do you agree with the expression that there is more suffering or sadness, more tears shed on earth then there is water in the ocean?
Kriya Yogi
Dharma and Love for God
I agree with everything you have said here.
As for the last part over history the tears shed from suffering is more than we can imagine, but I doubt it comes close to the water in the ocean. I do know however that without suffering men and women would not look to God as often as otherwise. Contentment and enjoyment of this planet can easily be a spiritual block or trap.
My Guru had a conversation with God one time and asked God why he permits such suffering. God immediately answered from within his consciousness and said without suffering my children would forget that this is not their true home. Suffering is a prod to remember that God is the only way suffering will truly cease.
My Guru was not content with that answer and God went on. He said the shadow and light beings are being flashed upon the screen of my shadow and light planets. The light and shadow of our bodies seem real to the owner when in delusion but once they realize that we are only light and shadow nothing can touch them. That is the goal of life. To realize these bodies and egos are but illusions hiding our true selves within. To recognize God within will dissassociate our consciousness from the illusory physical body and ego and nothing can ever again touch you.
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