Life might be older than Earth

[Titanic]

Actually in the study they dismiss this based on their assertion that it would take circa 10 billion years for intelligent life to develop, therefore intelligent life is only now beginning to emerge in different parts of the universe, therefore the evidence for life on earth in the last few billion years would indicate that no intelligence life was involved in our creation, but rather that life got to earth from some other source such as a meteor.

So your saying that no life has ever existed outside of earth?

 

[InformedIgnorance]

I think they are wrong to begin with, so no I am not saying that.

Using their determination it would mean that life MUST have come from outside of earth and that indeed life (including intelligent life) may well exist elsewhere; but that when that meteor etc bearing the life got to earth, the process was not then guided by some intelligent life form while on earth (i.e. no alien oversaw the process) - because according to their calculations 4.5 billion years ago there could not have been an intelligent life form since 10 billion years had not yet passed since the big bang and they suggest that as the amount of time required for an intelligent form of life to have evolved.

Actually they claim 9.7 +/- 2.5 billion years, but yeah... same difference for this model (huge margin of error btw).

 

[Titanic]

I think they are wrong to begin with, so no I am not saying that.

Using their determination it would mean that life MUST have come from outside of earth and that indeed life (including intelligent life) may well exist elsewhere; but that when that meteor etc bearing the life got to earth, the process was not then guided by some intelligent life form while on earth (i.e. no alien oversaw the process) - because according to their calculations 4.5 billion years ago there could not have been an intelligent life form since 10 billion years had yet to elapse since the big bang.

If you do not mind me asking, do you believe that there is some intelligent life outside of earth?

 

[InformedIgnorance]

I think the probability of that is extremely high.

It would be irrational to conclude our planet is unique in it's capacity to sustain complex life, nor is it rational to assume that earth based evolution is atypical in it's capacity to produce life with significant intelligence and indeed consciousness from more simple forms of life.

 

[Titanic]

I think the probability of that is extremely high.

It would be irrational to conclude our planet is unique in it's capacity to sustain complex life, nor is it rational to assume that earth based evolution is atypical in it's capacity to produce life with significant intelligence and indeed consciousness from more simple forms of life.

thank's for your answer.

 

[Riverwolf]

In other words, evolution needs more time, it needs an infinite amount of time to create the complexity of living organism. That is why evolutionists used to say the earth was infinite and fought hard against the discovery of the beginning of the universe.

Even though that makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Ouroboros]

In other words, evolution needs more time,

It seems like that what the calculations say. But I have doubts about using Moore's law for biological processes. Mutations and natural selection do not follow technological progress.

it needs an infinite amount of time to create the complexity of living organism.

That's not what they were saying.

That is why evolutionists used to say the earth was infinite and fought hard against the discovery of the beginning of the universe.

You mean the static model of the universe before Big Bang theory? I don't remember from history that any scientist argued Earth being eternal. Do you have any reference for that? I'm curious.

 

[Ouroboros]

There is evidence in the OP that evolution needs more time than the earth has, which tells scientists that life must have began before the earth. So your 4.5 billion years is out the window, double that and that doesn’t even give enough time to create the creatures that we see in their orderly functioning systems.
.

Wait, wait, wait. Take it easy with the assumptions and taking it to the extreme. They're not saying that the calculations suggest life to be older than the universe, only Earth's formation.

There have been suggestions before by scientists that abiogenesis might have started in space and not on the planet, so it's not disproving evolution at all because this scenario has already been discussed. I don't know the details, but I think the hypothesis is that amino acids and other basic organic material (organic is not yet fully "alive", only building blocks) forms close to stars (or something like that).

Here's another interesting article for you to ponder:
Astronomers Discover Complex Organic Matter Exists Throughout the Universe

 

[idav]

There is evidence in the OP that evolution needs more time than the earth has, which tells scientists that life must have began before the earth. So your 4.5 billion years is out the window, double that and that doesn’t even give enough time to create the creatures that we see in their orderly functioning systems.
.

The universe has had 13 billion years to evolve life. Whatever was around to make up our sun and solar system was already quite old and evolved so a template for life would have already been a done deal given the right conditions. Yes life is older than the earth as are the materials of the earth and solar system.

 

[idav]

Here's another interesting article for you to ponder:
Astronomers Discover Complex Organic Matter Exists Throughout the Universe

Interesting article, makes sense with what I said above.

 

[rusra02]

New study suggests to the possibility that life might have started before Earth's formation: Could Life Be Older Than Earth Itself?

The rate that life grows in complexity? Does that mean that life is so complex, it could not possibly have developed in the time Earth has existed? One more reason to reject evolution. Only an infinitely intelligent Being could create the complex life forms that fill the Earth. I think the evidence speaks loudly and clearly.

 

[sonofdad]

The rate that life grows in complexity? Does that mean that life is so complex, it could not possibly have developed in the time Earth has existed? One more reason to reject evolution. Only an infinitely intelligent Being could create the complex life forms that fill the Earth. I think the evidence speaks loudly and clearly.

If you apply Moore's law to organisms, that seems to be the case. However, I don't think there's any evidence that evolution acts according to Moore's law. It's a thought exercise.

 

[Riverwolf]

Only an infinitely intelligent Being could create the complex life forms that fill the Earth.

Why is that?

 

[Ouroboros]

Why is that?

Oh. I can answer that, silly.

Only an infinitely complex life form can create complex life forms. And complex life forms can only come into existence if there's an infinitely complex life form creating them.

 

[idav]

The rate that life grows in complexity? Does that mean that life is so complex, it could not possibly have developed in the time Earth has existed? One more reason to reject evolution. Only an infinitely intelligent Being could create the complex life forms that fill the Earth. I think the evidence speaks loudly and clearly.

Humans are so complex that it takes like 9 months for them to form from 2 single cells. 9 months is truly infinite.

 

[rusra02]

Humans are so complex that it takes like 9 months for them to form from 2 single cells. 9 months is truly infinite.

I believe our infinitely intelligent Designer placed the instructions for creating human life in the DNA. I agree with king David, who wrote: "Your eyes saw even the embryo of me, and in your book all its parts were down on writing, as regards the day when they were formed, and there was not yet one among then." (Psalm 139:16 NWT)
Notable long-time atheist Antony Flew began to express a belief that some intelligence created life. Why? He studied DNA. It is not the time that is infinite, but rather the complexity, complexity no human can fully understand, much less duplicate. (Ecclesiastes 8:17) God just makes it look easy.

 

[rusra02]

Oh. I can answer that, silly.

Only an infinitely complex life form can create complex life forms. And complex life forms can only come into existence if there's an infinitely complex life form creating them.

Or to paraphrase, with apologies, the poet, posts are made by fools like me, but only God can make a (real living) tree.

 

[secret2]

I believe our infinitely intelligent Designer placed the instructions for creating human life in the DNA.

Then your belief is wrong. The functioning of DNA is well understood, just because you refuse to learn it doesn't mean that you can treat it as a mythical dumping yard to fulfill your own mysticism fetish.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Now now, it is entirely different to suggest an intelligent designer working through natural processes such as evolution than it is to suggest the 'normal' young earth creationist model of creation (i.e. a literal interpretation); unlike their brethren, those who embrace natural processes should be embraced as at least understanding that the natural order has shaped reality - they merely choose to assert divine causes for the conditions underlying the characteristics and/or application of those natural mechanisms in order to support divine claims. We should not be so quick to dismiss their assertions or understandings given that it is certainly a major step in the right direction compared to their YEC colleagues.

 

[Reptillian]

I'm curious as to how they measure biological complexity mathematically. What units do they use? There's an objective mathematical way to tell if species Q is more complex than species Z? Assuming the functional form is y=constant + A*e^(B*t) how do they measure A, b, and the constant?