Life Without The Apple Incident

[sealchan]

Pretty much.


Not at all. I believe that just about everything one does outside the mind has its genesis in the mind.


Not at all. I, for instance, go through life acting as if I truly choose things. Why? because I have no choice but to do so. I can't help it. Just as you do.

.

So are you saying that there is effectively no way to tell the difference between someone with free will and someone with merely the illusion of free will?

 

[Skwim]

So are you saying that there is effectively no way to tell the difference between someone with free will and someone with merely the illusion of free will?

No one has free will, so anyone believing they do is under the illusion they do.

.

 

[sealchan]

No one has free will, so anyone believing they do is under the illusion they do.

.

What would be true if free will did exist?

My question is like asking, "What is darkness without light?" To deny something exists that so many people take for granted seems to require that one explain how this illusion is so persistent, especially as it is a foundational belief of democracy.

It seems to me that free will exists if a people says it does because then one is subject to all sorts of different things that a people who don't believe in free will wouldn't be subject to. Even if free will isn't a thing measurable in a scientific laboratory (like honor, bravery, love and duty), it does exist as a social-psychological entity. Analogous to how God exists I suppose.

While free will might not be a fundamental property of the Universe that is magically achieved by some specially pixie dusted people, it certainly exists as a psychological concept with vast socio-political and therefore physical consequences. Just like God...

 

[Skwim]

What would be true if free will did exist?

In order not to take my thread here, Life without the apple incident, off track any more, I'm not going to go on with the freewill issue. If you really want an answer I suggest constructing your own thread.

.

 

[Grandliseur]

What would our life be like today, 6,021 years since the creation of Adam & Eve, if they never "fell"?

​

Overpopulation?
No wars?
No competitive spirit?
No hate?
No comparative love?
Nowhere to necessarily go on Sunday mornings?​

Your reckoning _____________________________________________________.

.

While I already posted an answer, I think your last lines merit another.
Humans will always be humans. The general qualities that make us us, with competition, etc., will never change.
While I don't think I can say that the chosen solution is one that I can understand the reasons for, it is what is. Perhaps, like a youngster growing up, that one needs to be given some latitude to make a few mistakes on its way to adulthood. Maybe that is us. Then, adjustments naturally occur, or death follows many early who do not learn to adjust themselves, by alcohol, drugs, speeding excessively, crime, and so forth.

I still think your picture cute.
Ain't gone nowhere on Sunday mornings for years now.

 

[Skwim]

While I already posted an answer, I think your last lines merit another.
Humans will always be humans. The general qualities that make us us, with competition, etc., will never change.

Certainly, but lacking the fall of A&E their nature--- Humans will always be humans ---would be very different than it now is, and this is what I'm asking about. What would this life be like?

.

 

[Grandliseur]

T

Certainly, but lacking the fall of A&E their nature--- Humans will always be humans ---would be very different than it now is, and this is what I'm asking about. What would this life be like?

.

Take away all the messiness, add daily living in peace and I think you have your answer. Some places enjoy this now; others are like cesspools of wickedness. If we used our resources on people instead of more efficient killing machines, we would have what God promises - kind of.

 

[Skwim]

Take away all the messiness, add daily living in peace and I think you have your answer. Some places enjoy this now; others are like cesspools of wickedness. If we used our resources on people instead of more efficient killing machines, we would have what God promises - kind of.

Think all kinds of crazy sexual activity would be going on?

.

 

[Grandliseur]

Think all kinds of crazy sexual activity would be going on?

.

The earth is a sex machine. This is why God needs human sex to be regulated according to rules. Look at how much killing we have even of small children because there isn't a stable family setting to care for them, this is not even considering abortions. It is kind of like money, everyone uses it, thus it needs extra strict control, even taxation.

 

[Akivah]

From what I can see, the story only serves to excuse god from saddling mankind with all the pain and suffering he has to endure. It wasn't his fault, but that of stupid Adam and Eve. .

Do you think that people should be rewarded for making stupid or criminal choices? If someone is sent to jail, do you think it is only G-d's fault? Should any person have personal responsibility for their choices?

 

[Skwim]

Do you think that people should be rewarded for making stupid or criminal choices? If someone is sent to jail, do you think it is only G-d's fault? Should any person have personal responsibility for their choices?

I fail to see the relevance here. Please reread my post.

.

 

[Shaul]

The type of fruit isn’t stated in the text. Some think it was a fig since that is the only fruit mentioned in the text. (Where they got the fig leaves to make clothes)

Only much later Christians thought it was an apple.

 

[Shaul]

What would our life be like today, 6,021 years since the creation of Adam & Eve, if they never "fell"?

6021? I thought it was only 5778.

 

[Skwim]

6021? I thought it was only 5778.

Going by Ussher's reckoning. 4004 BC + 2017 = 6021

.

 

[Shaul]

Going by Ussher's reckoning. 4004 BC + 2017 = 6021

.

Ussher, schmussher. What did he know? He got the date of the destruction of the first Temple wrong.

The Jewish calendar holds this is year 5778 since creation.

 

[Skwim]

Ussher, schmussher. What did he know? He got the date of the destruction of the first Temple wrong.

The Jewish calendar holds this is year 5778 since creation.

Of course "Ussher, schmussher," but the same can be said of the whole Genesis tale: Genesis schmenesis.

Science holds the whole thing to be ridiculous.

.

.

 

[Shaul]

Of course "Ussher, schmussher," but the same can be said of the whole Genesis tale: Genesis schmenesis.

Science holds the whole thing to be ridiculous.
.

That’s a strange comment. Science isn’t a monolith. Science doesn’t make pronouncements about religious or theological statements at any rate. Much less to use unscientific terms like ridiculous.

 

[james bond]

Boooooring!

.

Now, why would that be boring ha ha?

 

[james bond]

Of course "Ussher, schmussher," but the same can be said of the whole Genesis tale: Genesis schmenesis.

Science holds the whole thing to be ridiculous.

.

.

Atheists are usually wrong. Atheist science holds the whole thing to be ridiculous. Creation science takes it a gospel.

 

[Skwim]

That’s a strange comment. Science isn’t a monolith. Science doesn’t make pronouncements about religious or theological statements at any rate. Much less to use unscientific terms like ridiculous.

Sure it is. Read anything you wish about the wild events in Genesis and see if they're substantiated by the relevant science.

.