If this did happen, just as an aside, I would be perfectly happy to let Scotland become its own Nation State. It worked that way for centuries and I'm sure it can work again.
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Live Brexit Deal Debate
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
I don't pretend to understand the political fault lines in Great Britain.
But if Brexit resulted in the dissolution, Scotland and Wales and England and Ireland becoming separate states, would the Brexit supporters still be in favor?
Really, I don't know. I am asking.
Tom
Of Brexit? Yes. Of dissolution? I don't know. Dissolution was on the table years before Brexit and Scotland had their independence referendum years before in September 2014.
But if it happens, and Ireland and Scotland Remain but England and Wales Brexit, there will be consequences.
Is that what the vote was about, and did the voters realize that?
Let me repeat, I don't know why Brexit passed. But it did. Everyone has to live with that.
But I am asking, did the voters, in toto, realize what they were voting for or against?
Personally, I don't have a dog in this fight. If Britain loses economic clout in Europe and their EU advantage over the USA economically it's probably better for me, as a Usonian.
Have at.
I am just trying to understand why.
Tom
The EU has already said that if dissolution happens, Scotland &c. would have to reapply for membership to the EU.
That is not what the vote was about.
Yes.
I'm sure the EU would let Scotland in with minimal fuss.
Woberts
The Perfumed Seneschal
Nah, no chance I'd ever get back in.Are you sure? I mean, they would indirectly get @Revoltingest if they did that.
(Court orders & all that.)
Right now they already have him.Are you sure? I mean, they would indirectly get @Revoltingest if they did that.
I think you answered your own question there. Popular votes don't always matter.
By the same logic if "we" Americans agreed to Clinton then she'd be the president, one would think...
Sorry, but this to me sounds like saying that since Trump is president, Clinton could not have won the popular vote.
Is it not possible for a government to oppose the will and agreement of the people?? Is such a thing inconceivable and without precedent??
In this case, the popular vote did matter. The Leavers won and now the government is trying to fumble through Brexit, but the problem is the current government's position was Remain.That's how they campaigned.
We voted Leave and our problem is we have a PM who voted Remain. There is no wonder she is cocking up.
The EU is nothing but a banking union, Tom.
It must be dissolved because, bankers will turn it into a federal superstate that will make the single European countries' will irrelevant
Yeah, that's what I was saying. Just because the popular vote was for leave doesn't mean the representatives wanted to leave and that leaving would happen.
That has nothing to do with my question.
If the EU agrees to let Ireland and Scotland reenter, provided they vote against a readjustment of the EU, favoring the English, would that possibly win?
In Ireland and Scotland?
I don't know.
Tom
I'm not sure what you mean here. Scotland and and Ireland could re-enter on their own terms, it would have nothing to do with England.
What about Ireland?
Really, I don't claim to have an opinion.
But I don't think the EU is going to give a better deal to Scotland without concessions than they give England.
Why would they? They have a great deal of leverage. Scotland doesn't want Brexit, if I understand correctly.
Tom
I thought that the EU had to agree that Scotland and Ireland could reenter.
No?
They can force their way in, after GB voted for Brexit?
I don't pretend to understand European politics. Why would Germany and Spain and Italy just let Scotland back into The Union, when Britain is exiting?
I really don't understand this.
Tom
- Britain as a whole would exit.
- Scotland would, hypothetically, devolve from the Union. It would not be an EU member as it is classed as a new Nation State.
- Scotland would have to apply to join the EU.
You know what we call countries that don't elect their top leaders?
Tyranny.
Maybe Oligarchy.
Not much difference.
But the USA is not a Democracy. The Founding Fathers didn't want people unlike them voting. The liberal elitist politicians of the late 1700s got their way.
Uh no, Clinton obviously did win the American people's vote. The numbers are easily available on the internet.
Trump is president because the USA is not a democracy, it's an oligarchy.
This is easy to see, if you look at the facts.
Yes, the government opposing the will of The People is the historical norm.
It's called "aristocracy".
It's the USA. We don't elect our top leaders, they decide amongst themselves who to give power to.
Tom
Northern Ireland would need apply as well.
England is not getting a deal. The UK is getting a deal. England will have to make a deal afresh with the EU in such a case if the others devolve. Each will be able to hammer out its own deal with the EU.
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