Living in Heaven or on Earth. Does the Bible give us that option? [For Jehovah's Witnesses]

[Trailblazer]

I have posted John 12:25. More than posting, I practice what I post and write.

You are a rarity. Most Christians do not practice what is in John 12:25.

 

[1213]

...

We will not have eternal life on earth because nobody can live forever in a physical body on earth.

Thank you. I don't think those had the "will be resurrected in a spiritual body and go to live in heaven forever. That was the promise of Jesus". But, I agree that it is said people will have spiritual body. But, it is not said that "We will not have eternal life on earth because nobody can live forever in a physical body on earth".

 

[Elihoenai]

You are a rarity. Most Christians do not practice what is in John 12:25.

Genesis 26:15

15 For all the wells which his father's servants had digged in the days of Abraham his father, the Philistines had stopped them, and filled them with earth.


The Rarity is because I Am Christian Gnostic that is Outcast from Christendom a Heretic in the Eyes of the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church are Genius in knowing what Religion the Natural Man wants, Cherishing and Protecting their life in the Flesh/Body.

 

[2ndpillar]

What does Jesus say about premarital sex?

The Bible clearly and explicitly says that premarital sex is wrong. The Bible just as clearly, if more implicitly, teaches that premarital sex is personally selfish and publicly subversive of the goods that marriage is meant to promote and protect. Oct 18, 2023

Is It Wrong to Have Sex Before Marriage? | Clearly Reformed​

Fornication includes sex out of wedlock. Both adultery and fornication are prohibited in the Bible.

What is the difference between adultery and fornication?

In legal use there is a difference between adultery and fornication. Adultery is only used when at least one of the parties involved (either male or female) is married, whereas fornication may be used to describe two people who are unmarried (to each other or anyone else) engaging in consensual sexual intercourse.
Fornication Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

Sin is transgression of the law. The law provides remedies for having sex out of wedlock but does not classify it as a sin. The law provides a remedy for your bull goring your neighbor. The bull is not noted as a sinner, and unless he repeats his offense, he is not the one held liable. The son of David made a vow to God, and that vow was fulfilled when the son slept with 7 of David's concubines and took his kingdom. Was doing the will of God a sin? David had many concubines, apart from him taking his commander's wife, was he rebuked by God? Jacob had 2 concubines, was he rebuked by God? You are getting caught up in the hypocrisy of the "Christian" church. The "Christian"/Gentile church is urged to come out of Babylon (Rev 18:4), yet it does not do so. Relying on the writings of "Christian" pastors and Merriam-Webster is probably not the best path to truth. That is like asking a Woke Progressive, "what is a woman".

 

[Trailblazer]

Sin is transgression of the law. The law provides remedies for having sex out of wedlock but does not classify it as a sin.

Simply put, fornication is a sin because it is inconsistent with the nature of sex, the nature of marriage, and the nature of the family. Marriage is a covenant bond between a man and woman (Mal. 2:14), a covenantal bond sealed by the one flesh union of sexual intimacy (Gen. 2:24). Oct 18, 2023

Is It Wrong to Have Sex Before Marriage? | Clearly Reformed

 

[2ndpillar]

Simply put, fornication is a sin because it is inconsistent with the nature of sex, the nature of marriage, and the nature of the family. Marriage is a covenant bond between a man and woman (Mal. 2:14), a covenantal bond sealed by the one flesh union of sexual intimacy (Gen. 2:24). Oct 18, 2023
Is It Wrong to Have Sex Before Marriage? | Clearly Reformed

You can have "sexual intimacy" with a hooker. Not recommended, but there you are. United into one flesh with respect to Genesis 2:24 is another thing. Two gay guys can get married in a church or in a courthouse. To be one flesh with respect to Genesis, a man and woman become one flesh, in that they can sense, think and feel what their spouse feels. You only marry someone who is already one with God. Otherwise, you are in for a heap of trouble. In the original sense, there is no separation/divorce. The current US divorce rate is over 50%. They were never "one flesh" in the original sense.

 

[Trailblazer]

You can have "sexual intimacy" with a hooker. Not recommended, but there you are. United into one flesh with respect to Genesis 2:24 is another thing. Two gay guys can get married in a church or in a courthouse. To be one flesh with respect to Genesis, a man and woman become one flesh, in that they can sense, think and feel what their spouse feels. You only marry someone who is already one with God. Otherwise, you are in for a heap of trouble. In the original sense, there is no separation/divorce. The current US divorce rate is over 50%. They were never "one flesh" in the original sense.

That does not change the fact that fornication is a sin in the eyes of God.

 

[2ndpillar]

That does not change the fact that fornication is a sin in the eyes of God.

Now you are God. What is sin? And what law are you referring to? If you are referring to something the false prophet Paul said, well, that answers that. Did Jacob fornicate when laying with Leah? He thought he was with Rachel. Was Leah raping Jacob, for certainly she did not have his consent if he thought he was sleeping with Rachel. Did Jacob pay a price for Rachel, or did he simply ask for her to marry him? Did Eve marry Adam? Did Judah propose marriage to his son's wife, Tamar, on their first encounter? Was not Tamar the grandmother* * of king David? Did David take back Saul's daughter from her husband? The marriage of Jewish law is overturned with a letter of dismissal. The law of the kingdom is a bit different (Mt 5:32). The law of the Roman church is about paying a price. I think my mom had to pay the Catholic church something around $500 to get an annulment. As for a woman sleeping with men, well that is called harlotry. When a church sells her wares to kings and men, well, she becomes a harlot as well. Without the oil of the Spirit of God, there is no marriage (Mt 25:10). A good wife is a gift of God, and is a rare thing. If Yeshua hasn't procured faithful wives (7 or 10) (Mt 25 & Rev 2 & 3), where does that leave everyone else. For the most part, the women are easily led stray by false prophets. That is why Babylon the Great is portrayed as a woman. (Rev 17:5). The only thing that Paul got right was that women should probably keep mum. You will find one man in a thousand, and no woman among them. (Ecc 7:28)

Proverbs 18:22 He who finds a wife finds a good thing And obtains favor from the LORD.

Ecclesiastes 7:26-28
I find more bitter than death
the woman who is a snare,
whose heart is a trap
and whose hands are chains.
The man who pleases God will escape her,
but the sinner she will ensnare.

Ecclesiastes 7:28 while I was still searching but not finding— I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all.

 

[Trailblazer]

Now you are God. What is sin? And what law are you referring to?

I do not care if there is actually a Law. Christianity is a religion without Laws, thanks to Paul.
However, fornication is a sin.

The Bible speaks of fornication as a grave sin. Mark 7:20 - "And Jesus said, 'What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.

What does the Bible say about fornication?​

What is the biblical definition of fornication?

Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.

Fornication - Wikipedia

Nobody needs sex unless they are married and trying to have children, which is the purpose of sex.
But if people want to choose sex over God then they can have it.

Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Jesus was not referring to riding on the merry-go-round at the local amusement park. Sex is one of those things that is not of God, but of men. In those verses, Jesus was saying to deny our selfish desires, things we want that are not of God, and to follow in Jesus’ Way. For whoever will live for self and the world shall lose his eternal life, but whoever will sacrifice his life for the sake of Jesus shall gain eternal life.

Sex out of wedlock for pleasure alone is selfish and worldly. If we live for self and the worldly things, we gain the world but we lose our soul because we lose eternal life. The soul that gains eternal life is near to God so it is in heaven. The soul that loses eternal life continues to exist in the spiritual world (since all souls are immortal) but that soul is far from God, so it is in hell.

The way to get to heaven is to be faithful to God, cleave to His truth and follow His teachings and laws.
The way to get to hell is to live for self and passion.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths...”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159

 

[2ndpillar]

I do not care if there is actually a Law. Christianity is a religion without Laws, thanks to Paul.
However, fornication is a sin.

"Christianity" is the religion based on the "message" of the "enemy" (Mt 13:24-30), who is the "devil" (Mt 13:37-42), and his mouthpiece is Paul, and his message is "lawlessness" (Mt 7:23) Paul, as yourself, determines what is sin and what it is not. Paul's message, is that the law has been nailed to the cross. When a person decides what is right and what is wrong, that is called humanism, and is the foundation of the present Marxist Atheist Progressive Woke movement. In this movement, you have women that no one wants, because they are not worth the drama. Better to live in an attic than with a woke women. (Proverbs 25:24).

Proverbs 25;24 Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife

 

[2ndpillar]

Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Yeshua in Mt 16:23 was referring to Mt 16:22, whereas Siman Peter decided what was right and what was wrong, where upon Yeshua said get behind me Satan, you are a stumbling block to me. As for your Baha, well, the guy is just another false prophet, one among many (Mt 7:15).

 

[Muffled]

I believe it is a mistake to ask JW's anything since most of the time they are mistaken and don't listen to reason.

 

[Muffled]

All of the wonderful Jehovah’s Witnesses that have come to my door have expressed no desire for a heavenly hope. Their desire is to be on Paradise Earth forever. And what could be wrong with good food, a nice house, domesticated wild animals and beautiful scenery?

The problem is the difficulty in making a scriptural case for an earthly hope. Yes, the Bible clearly teaches about the earthly kingdom, but for the Christian, the Bible only speaks of a heavenly hope as in the following scriptures: (Note: All scriptures are from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures).

Philippians 3:20 - “But our citizenship exists in the heavens, and we are eagerly waiting for a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ.”​

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Colossians 1:5 - “the hope that is being reserved for YOU in the heavens.​

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Hebrews 3:1 - “Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess-Jesus.”​

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Matthew 5:12 - “Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU.”​

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Luke 6:22-23 - “Happy are you whenever men hate you, and when they exclude you and reproach you and denounce your name as wicked for the sake of the Son of man. Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, for look! your reward is great in heaven, for those are the same things their forefathers used to do to the prophets.”​

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2 Corinthians 5:1-2 - “For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens. For in this dwelling house we do indeed groan, earnestly desiring to put on the one for us from heaven,”​

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Hebrews 6:19-20 - “We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, both sure and firm, and it enters in within the curtain, where a forerunner has entered in our behalf, Jesus, who has become a high priest in the manner of Melchizedek forever.”​

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1 Corinthians 15:42-45 - “So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.”​

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1 Corinthians 15:49 - “And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we will bear also the image of the heavenly one."​

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John 14:2-3 - "In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be."​

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1 John 3:2 - “Beloved ones, we are now children of God, but it has not yet been made manifest what we will be. We do know that when he is made manifest we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is.”​

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Philippians 3:14 - “I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.”​

The Upward Call is to HEAVEN. Compare Colossians 3:1 "If, however, you were raised up with the Christ, go on seeking the things above, <Strong's #507> where the Christ is seated at the right hand of God." Now compare: John 8:23 “He went on to say to them: “You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. <Strong's #507> You are from this world; I am not from this world.”

Daniel 12:3 - “And those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever.”​

None of these scriptures indicate any other hope for the Christian than the heavenly hope. As a matter of fact, Eph 4:4 says, “One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called” (Eph 4:4). So, for the Christian there is only one hope; the heavenly hope. Throughout the book of Acts, whenever anyone is baptized, nobody is ever given the option of whether they want to choose an earthly or a heavenly reward.

Even the Great Crowd are said to be in Heaven in Rev 19:1 which says: “After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven.” The Greek words translated great crowd is exactly the same as in Rev 7:9.

I believe they are correct in believing this is the final destination: Rev, 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

Unfortunately I have never heard of a JW receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior so they won't be there.

 

[Muffled]

You seem to be heavy on the rants of the false prophet Paul. As for Rev 19:1, that is with respect to the "angels" in heaven. As for Mt 5:19, apart from some modern Weymouth bible, that is not what is stated. As for the "kingdom", that will be ruled from Jerusalem (Zech 14:16), and as for Jerusalem, it will be "coming down from heaven" (Rev 21:2). As for who will rule, that would be the sole shepherd, and prince, and that would be Daivd per Ezekiel 34 after judgment of the sheep. As for who will be king, and rule from the land given to Jacob/Israel, that would be David (Ezekiel 37:24-25). As for who will be "destroyed", well, that would be the nations/Gentiles (Jeremiah 30:11). As for who will be judged at the "day of the LORD", that would be the nations/Gentiles (Joel 2:31-3-8). As for Yeshua's prayer, they kingdom come, that would be for the kingdom to be set up for 1000 years, ruled from Jerusalem, in collaboration with those who rise from the dead, who do not have the mark of the beast, and those who had been beheaded because of the Word of God. (Rev 20:4) As for Daniel 2:45, after the nations/Gentiles have been crushed, a new kingdom will be set up which will endure forever. As stated in Joel 3:18, that kingdom will be one on earth.

I believe there is no evidence that Paul is a false prophet.