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Logically, agnosticism is the most rational position

loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
leibowde84 said:
How do you know they are from God? Many writings make that claim.

What writing includes the logical proof for God's existence?
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Some Answered Question is available here in PDF form: (words of Bahaullah's son)

http://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/some-answered-questions/

Just like we have been given eyes to see the physical world we have also been given insight to be able to discover God. So we have an innate ability to recognise God.

Baha'u'llah talks here about ways we can know truth.

Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. (Baha'u'llah)
 
S

shivsomashekhar

Well-Known Member
loverofhumanity said:
Some Answered Question is available here in PDF form: (words of Bahaullah's son)

http://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/some-answered-questions/

Just like we have been given eyes to see the physical world we have also been given insight to be able to discover God. So we have an innate ability to recognise God.

Baha'u'llah talks here about ways we can know truth.

Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. (Baha'u'llah)
Click to expand...

The question was about 'logical proof'. I am not seeing any in the link you posted?
 
loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
shivsomashekhar said:
The question was about 'logical proof'. I am not seeing any in the link you posted?
Click to expand...

There's a chapter in the book called

'Proofs and Evidences of the Existence of God'

This is a paper on Scientific Proof of God here

https://bahai-studies.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/5.4-Hatcher.pdf

This goes deeply into logic and maybe what you are after. It defines what is logic and then proceeds to prove God by it. See page 4 onwards for logical proofs about God.

http://wilmetteinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/BAHAI-Bahai-Proofs-of-God-1.pdf

Hope this is of some assistance to you.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
loverofhumanity said:
Some Answered Question is available here in PDF form: (words of Bahaullah's son)

http://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/some-answered-questions/

Just like we have been given eyes to see the physical world we have also been given insight to be able to discover God. So we have an innate ability to recognise God.

Baha'u'llah talks here about ways we can know truth.

Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. (Baha'u'llah)
Click to expand...
This isn't a logical proof though. It is merely an unsubstantiated claim. Is there any logical proof as you claimed before?
 
OceanSoul

OceanSoul

Member
Agnosticism is a reasonable position to hold. Considering how much we have yet to discover in the universe. The universe is like a vast library full of wonders to be found and revealed. The vastness of it alone is overwhelming, makes me feel so small and uncertain.

You can be just Agnostic, an Agnostic Atheist, or an Agnostic Theist.
 
jonathan180iq

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
OceanSoul said:
Why is it so hard to grasp that a theist can be unsure and have doubts? Not every theist is gnostic nor is absolutely certain a god exists.
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I believe in strong theism just as I believe in strong atheism.

Our level of dedication to our personal philosophies ebbs and flows. Nothing is rigid, if we are honest with ourselves.
There are plenty of weak theists. I believe the Biblical crowd would recognize them as being "luke warm" in their devotion, right?
And there are plenty of weak atheists, like the majority of the posters in this thread, from what I've read.
 
loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
leibowde84 said:
This isn't a logical proof though. It is merely an unsubstantiated claim. Is there any logical proof as you claimed before?
Click to expand...

Yes. A couple of posts earlier I posted scientific proofs as well as logical proofs. Did you see the links? They are two different papers.

Worth a look

Here's one link to the logical proofs which begin on page 4

http://wilmetteinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/BAHAI-Bahai-Proofs-of-God-1.pdf

And here is the scientific proofs. You have to scroll down past the French there's more there.

https://bahai-studies.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/5.4-Hatcher.pdf
 
Satans_Serrated_Edge

Satans_Serrated_Edge

Deicidal
OceanSoul said:
Tell that to Agnostics who aren't inclined to either side and believe the middle of the road is best. Your thinking is too black and white, IMO.
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No, my thinking is clear, as it always is. There is no third side in matters of belief, this is basic epistemology. You either hold a premise to be true, or you don't. If you 'dont know ' or are 'undecided' then you obviously don't believe.
 
OceanSoul

OceanSoul

Member
jonathan180iq said:
I believe in strong theism just as I believe in strong atheism.

Our level of dedication to our personal philosophies ebbs and flows. Nothing is rigid, if we are honest with ourselves.
There are plenty of weak theists. I believe the Biblical crowd would recognize them as being "luke warm" in their devotion, right?
And there are plenty of weak atheists, like the majority of the posters in this thread, from what I've read.
Click to expand...

Probably, but I don't care what the more hardline Christians think about Agnostic Theists. It's fine if they believe in God 100% as long as they don't force me to agree with them that there is definitely a god/dess. I see my position as an emotional one and being spiritual is a part of my nature. I just don't see mine as a fact and I see arguments for and against theism and atheism. The problem of suffering keeps me from being certain, to be honest.
 
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