-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Loki
- Thread starter Whiterain
- Start date
I know that Loki's real because he accepted my sacrifices and given back the requested gift. He's given to me for more than I deserve. No matter what "kind" of deity he is, I owe him my respect that he's more than a malicious god of chaos.
He's a wise magician who can change reality, even his own shape. He's also father of Narfi, Vali, Hel, Jormungand and Fenrir. In this way he's also breaker of worlds. "I wouldn't give my daughter for the world!" we hear all the time something to that effect. What we don't know is that Loki will actually take a step further. He'll destroy the world for his children. This shows Loki as being a mad god bent on vengeance for his children. Insanity can teach us a lot, but this is getting into some deep and kinda twisted stuff.
He's a wise magician who can change reality, even his own shape. He's also father of Narfi, Vali, Hel, Jormungand and Fenrir. In this way he's also breaker of worlds. "I wouldn't give my daughter for the world!" we hear all the time something to that effect. What we don't know is that Loki will actually take a step further. He'll destroy the world for his children. This shows Loki as being a mad god bent on vengeance for his children. Insanity can teach us a lot, but this is getting into some deep and kinda twisted stuff.
I'm not sure what to make of him or how to approach him. In one respect I tend to see him as a version of Hermes who "went bad". But I think there is a valid reason. Both are glib, mischievous, quick to think on their feet and get out of scrapes, and perhaps impart that to followers: getting someone out of a scrape or jam by inspiring the person.
But whereas Hermes' personality never changed from one of playful mischief and glibness, and never threw temper tantrums, Loki turned to the "dark side", threw temper tantrums and used his abilities for ill-purpose. To that end I'm not sure I would feel comfortable appealing to Loki, not knowing if he would help me or cause more trouble for me just for "a bit of fun" (as Tom Hiddleston's Loki put it).
On the other hand, by not appealing to him, would he feel slighted and cause me mischief? I don't know. However, I prefer to think that if he's given respect he's firmly on your side. It was a matter of being disrespected and dismissed, I think, that made him turn on the Aesir. This is the point about having a valid reason to become angry and bitter, the disrespect he was shown.
But whereas Hermes' personality never changed from one of playful mischief and glibness, and never threw temper tantrums, Loki turned to the "dark side", threw temper tantrums and used his abilities for ill-purpose. To that end I'm not sure I would feel comfortable appealing to Loki, not knowing if he would help me or cause more trouble for me just for "a bit of fun" (as Tom Hiddleston's Loki put it).
On the other hand, by not appealing to him, would he feel slighted and cause me mischief? I don't know. However, I prefer to think that if he's given respect he's firmly on your side. It was a matter of being disrespected and dismissed, I think, that made him turn on the Aesir. This is the point about having a valid reason to become angry and bitter, the disrespect he was shown.
He is a catalyst and an initiator of action. He brings balance. I view him as equally worthy of reverence as the other Gods.
I feel he's more identifiable with Prometheus.
"Went bad" is an odd way to put it. I think a more proper phrase would be "driven mad" by the venom of a dragon while tied by the guts of his offspring whom he saw viciously massacred by your other son having been turned into a wolf.
I'd be a madman too.
I put "went bad" in quotation marks as a sort of hyperbole. I think the tipping point for him was Aegir's feast. He was slighted in the worst way, especially being Odin's blood-brother, and having gotten the Aesir out of jams (OK, so he created some of them 
). We can't know for certain whether he would have still pulled his stunt with Hodr and Baldr, even if he was an honored guest at the feast, given his penchant for mischief. As I've been reading more, he is indeed a complex character, bringing a sort of balance.
). We can't know for certain whether he would have still pulled his stunt with Hodr and Baldr, even if he was an honored guest at the feast, given his penchant for mischief. As I've been reading more, he is indeed a complex character, bringing a sort of balance.
The relationship between Odin and Loki is one of my favorites in all of the Lore.
Actually, part of the reason is from a modern source, and I'm not sure has any attestation from older sources: the Manowar song "Blood Brothers." There's a particular line that goes: "I remember you stood by me, I'm with you all the way." Now, this may be my own experiences causing an anachronism, but that conjures to me an image of the two when they were children, how they both stood up for each other against the harassment of their own Tribes against them. Then, when they were both grown and Odin became King, their relationship became difficult to maintain from what happens, culminating in Balder's death.
I'm actually reminded somewhat of the relationship between the two main characters from "The Fox and the Hound."
Actually, part of the reason is from a modern source, and I'm not sure has any attestation from older sources: the Manowar song "Blood Brothers." There's a particular line that goes: "I remember you stood by me, I'm with you all the way." Now, this may be my own experiences causing an anachronism, but that conjures to me an image of the two when they were children, how they both stood up for each other against the harassment of their own Tribes against them. Then, when they were both grown and Odin became King, their relationship became difficult to maintain from what happens, culminating in Balder's death.
I'm actually reminded somewhat of the relationship between the two main characters from "The Fox and the Hound."
I like this interpretation thematically, but I disagree. I shall elaborate down below.
I have a riddle for you. What is the sum of Loki's actions? He had built the wall which encircles Asgard, the forging of Mjolnir is of his doing, it was his idea(If I remember properly) to disguise Thor to gain it back and save Freyja from Thrymr, through him Odin gained Sleipnir, so on and so forth. Things without which Asgard would've been defenseless, Midgard overran with those Jotunn dissatisfied with their icy lands and more. I would argue this is easily a net-positive.
What if Loki is just Odin in disguise? Before anyone says "But all of Odin's forms are missing an eye", who is the one who told us this? Odin. Not to mention, Loki himself has a similar 'theme' in his assumed shapes. It always has to do with the eyes. Suddenly it becomes apparent at just how deep a game Odin is playing, to hold off Ragnarok for just a year, a day, an hour more.
Pretty interesting, and not something I would discount out of hand. It seems Odin was up for a bit of mischief too, and what he might consider fun... Hárbarðsljóð. One thing I read says Harbard was Loki, another thing says it was Odin. Seems there was a lot of masquerading, hide-and-seek and peek-a-boo in the Nine Worlds, so nothing would surprise me.
Salek Atesh
Active Member
Loki's fate in the Lokasenna has always seemed unfair to me. Odin casts Loki's son into the seas, binds another son in fetters, and casts his daughter into Niflheim. Loki, in parallel, casts Odin's son into Niflheim. Is not Loki's crime against Odin's son the same as Odin's crime against Loki's daughter??
It's just one way I look at Loki.
Heh. You forgot one. He also, kinda, sorta, saved hope for mankind. ^_^
You see, by killing Balder, he actually ended up keeping him in Helheim, safe from Ragnarok, to come back when the world has been born again. I like to think he planned it deliberately, perhaps even with Odin. Plus, it gave him an excuse to duke it out with Heimdall.
Hodr too. Intentional or not, he reunited the brothers. Ironically, Vali (son of Odin and Rind) survives Ragnarok also. In this, Loki redeems (for lack of a better word) a tragedy, maybe inspite of himself. So much meat on the bones of the lore to chew on.
I don't recall what Odin found offensive about Hela, but Fenrir and Jormungandr were deemed to be threats. Counterintuitive as it may seem it seems to me that Hela got the best of it... control over the fate of ordinary mortals (and at least one god) after their deaths, to either keep them or release them. Barring any other managing of the afterlife, she got quite a powerful, albeit not altogether cushy job.
I find it interesting that there was a difference between the God of Death and the God of the Place of the Dead. You'd think the one who rules over death as a function would inherently take care of that other stuff.
Reading this thread just made me realize I know absolutely nothing about the pantheon of which I would like to pay homage to... *hangs head*... Where to begin? *Shrug* ... Too the books *trudges off*
If you're interested, I can help. Send me a message if you need anything.
Yeah, ask away. I certainly don't know everything, but every little bit helps.
The Norse Myths by Kevin Crossley-Holland | 9780394748467 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble
The Prose Edda: Tales from Norse Mythology by Snorri Sturluson | 9780140447552 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble
Gods and Myths of Northern Europe by H. R. Ellis Davidson | 9780140136272 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble
Norse mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'll ask as soon as I come up with a question haha. I bought all three of those books this morning. I plugged one in to Amazon and the other 2 came up as suggestions lol.
Its just a little overwhelming to be diving head first in to without a solid starting foundation. I'm just kinda grasping at ideas and concepts at random.