Love for God VS Love for People

[Electra]

I found this quote and it really got me thinking, I thought it would be nice to discuss. It is a beautiful way to look at this situation.

"When Adam bit the apple he did it because he trusted Eve. Because he loved her. Adam bit into the apple because the woman he loved told him to, no matter what God said. No matter the rules of heaven. What’s heaven to a woman’s love anyway? What’s God to your wife? The first sins of humanity, were trusting others. Eve trusted a snake, Adam trusted Eve, and I trust you. Maybe that’s a sin, just like the first couple. Maybe everyone’s right about us and we’re sinners and we offend God. But like I said, what’s God to a woman’s love anyway? What has heaven got that I can’t find sitting next to you on a cool autumn morning?"

This is a pretty layered statement so feel free to take/leave whatever.

Do you feel the need to love God more than people? equal? less?

Do you trust God more than people? equal? less?

Do you see people as an extension of God? or separate?

Can your God be questioned?

Do you trust your personal connection with God more or less than your leaders?

How do you know what God wants you to do?



I always found the apple eating incident quiet funny. If it was the tree of knowledge of good vs evil , how would Eve & Adam know that eating the apple was 'bad'? You should obey God, ok, but 'should' is a moralistic word, they do not know about morality yet??

 

[sun rise]

Do you feel the need to love God more than people? equal? less?

Divinity is within people, immanent and transcendent. To truly love the Divine, I need to love as the sun shines.

Do you see people as an extension of God? or separate?

I believe that nothing is real but God. People are as drops in a Divine ocean.

Can your God be questioned?

Sure, why not.

Do you trust your personal connection with God more or less than your leaders?

It depends what kind of "leader" we're talking about. Ordinary, self-appointed leaders, certainly I trust my personal connection more.

Leaders that can be called prophets, saints, pirs and the like are different.

How do you know what God wants you to do?

What God wants is inside me and manifests as intuition. What God wants is apparently outside and manifests as wisdom from prophets etc and manifests as the commonality between all faiths and humanism.

What God wants boils down to working on becoming more loving in every situation and doing my best to understand how that love should manifest.

 

[Electra]

What God wants is inside me and manifests as intuition. What God wants is apparently outside and manifests as wisdom from prophets etc and manifests as the commonality between all faiths and humanism.

Thanks for your answer. Yes, I find it great you talked about inside and outside. The current modality i see a lot with people saying 'it's all inside', yea.. ok.. but outside is also inside or inside is also outside..soooo.. lol, always both!

 

[Electra]

I have another added question.

Would you be okay if your partner loved God more than you?

Would you be okay if your partner loved a prophet more than you?

 

[danieldemol]

...Do you feel the need to love God more than people? equal? less?

I happen to love God equally to people, but not because I feel the need to, only because I want to. I actually don’t feel there is a need to love God at all, only a need to practice virtues.

Do you trust God more than people? equal? less?

More because people have human failings

Do you see people as an extension of God? or separate?

I see God as seperate from everything, including people, but believe all people have a spirit capable of manifesting the divine attributes in accordance with their capacity.

Can your God be questioned?

Yes

Do you trust your personal connection with God more or less than your leaders?

More

How do you know what God wants you to do?
...

Through the subjective inner voice of the conscience.

 

[sun rise]

Would you be okay if your partner loved God more than you?

Would you be okay if your partner loved a prophet more than you?

You know, it would probably bother me a bit. But what I should do is to understand where that jealousy or envy comes from and seek to annul it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

"Jesus is my virtue, and Judas is the demon I cling to." - Lady Gaga

(The Biblical references here are obvious. Gaga is a cradle Catholic who went to Catholic school for much of her life, so she knows her symbolism here.)

Yes, I've been in this situation more than once. It has stopped me from being who I am on the inside and set me back in my goals to better myself. But I've learned from it, I hope.

 

[Native]

I always found the apple eating incident quiet funny.

Me too

The first sins of humanity, were trusting others. Eve trusted a snake, Adam trusted Eve . . .

This entire sin-plot is a story making technique in order to explain the (mis) interpreted latter "divine revenge" of a Flood - which never happened as this myth simply describes the Milky Way River in the night Sky "running" OVER the Earth and not ON the Earth.

If your God isn´t OK for you, then try some Goddesses of Love

 

[Brian2]

I found this quote and it really got me thinking, I thought it would be nice to discuss. It is a beautiful way to look at this situation.

"When Adam bit the apple he did it because he trusted Eve. Because he loved her. Adam bit into the apple because the woman he loved told him to, no matter what God said. No matter the rules of heaven. What’s heaven to a woman’s love anyway? What’s God to your wife? The first sins of humanity, were trusting others. Eve trusted a snake, Adam trusted Eve, and I trust you. Maybe that’s a sin, just like the first couple. Maybe everyone’s right about us and we’re sinners and we offend God. But like I said, what’s God to a woman’s love anyway? What has heaven got that I can’t find sitting next to you on a cool autumn morning?"

The story says that Adam saw that the fruit was good for eating and the getting of wisdom and that is why he ate it. He was not deceived by the snake and still knew that God had said not to eat it and that he would die if he did but ate it anyway because he had justified it to himself.
After eating it and when God confronted him, he blamed Eve.
He knew only innocence up till the eating of the fruit and had not experienced evil. Now he was experiencing evil and the consequences of it, which included guilt and so he blamed Eve.
It was not a matter of trusting Eve that made him eat.

I always found the apple eating incident quiet funny. If it was the tree of knowledge of good vs evil , how would Eve & Adam know that eating the apple was 'bad'? You should obey God, ok, but 'should' is a moralistic word, they do not know about morality yet??

Not eating the fruit seems to have been the only things they could have done which was bad. Adam already knew not to to eat and that it would be wrong, even if he was innocent up to that point. The eating gave him the experience of evil, so not he knew the difference between good and evil through experience, which seems to be what the knowledge was all about. Knowing of evil without doing it retained innocence and eating it gave the experiential knowledge.

 

[Mock Turtle]

In my perhaps unenlightened opinion, people are all we have in this world to love - apart from all the other life, and this being another matter - such that all else is conjecture. If we all saw that this were so, and had as our aim to progress life such that it benefitted all rather than just ourselves or some select grouping (whatever that might be) then perhaps life might be more rewarding and less of a struggle.

No idea what any God might want of us since I perhaps not unexpectedly don't trust anything written about any God or gods, or apparently coming from such.

 

[pearl]

Do you feel the need to love God more than people? equal? less?

I think this presents a false comparison. God's love is unconditional, man's is emotional. God's love demands justice. I do not have to like those I love as brothers and sisters.

 

[February-Saturday]

I don't have any gods pertinent to my religion. I consider myself an animist, not a polytheist, but the two can't be cleanly separated.

The two closest figures to God that I believe in are Satan, who is the most prominent and central spirit, and Azoth or the Monad which is the substance all things are fashioned out of.

Do you feel the need to love God more than people? equal? less?

I don't feel the need to love Satan at all, even if I do. Azoth is within all beings, and so loving Her is the same as loving everyone. I don't feel the need to love Her, either, but it tends to be the natural result of spiritual practice.

Do you trust God more than people? equal? less?

I trust Satan to have my back more than people, but I don't trust Him to be transparent.

Do you see people as an extension of God? or separate?

I see everyone as an extension of Azoth.

Can your God be questioned?

Both of them can be, and it's encouraged.

Do you trust your personal connection with God more or less than your leaders?

I don't consider myself to have any leaders, so I suppose more.

How do you know what God wants you to do?

I believe that Azoth will love me no matter what I do, and I hold frequent summonings to communicate with demons. Twice a year, I make a ritual descent into the Netherworld to speak to Satan directly.

Hopefully, if they want me to do something, they're speaking up. Otherwise, there could be a lot of miscommunication.

Would you be okay if your partner loved God more than you?

I understand putting religious duties first. I don't think I could have a healthy relationship with somebody that isn't devoutly religious, because that's something so important to my life. Ideally, that would unite us together towards a common, transcendent goal rather than divide us.

I don't care whether they love God more or less than me as much as I care whether that love is harming or helping our relationship.

Would you be okay if your partner loved a prophet more than you?

Ha ha, well, I guess it depends on if the prophet is still alive!

If they are, then probably not unless said prophet is one of my partner's relatives and that's the reason for the love. If they aren't, then my answer here would be the same as the previous question.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Do you feel the need to love God more than people?

Absolutely. For me, God always comes first.

Do you trust God more than people?

Again, absolutely.

Do you see people as an extension of God? or separate?

Separate.

Can your God be questioned?

I believe that God instructs me to question all things, including Them. My questioning of God has (so far) always resulted in me gaining greater insights into God and my relation to Them.

Do you trust your personal connection with God more or less than your leaders?

My personal connection more, most certainly. I'm not sure I have any 'leaders' per se in any case. Not living ones at any rate.

How do you know what God wants you to do?

Ultimately by asking God. And part of God's Answer comes through reading the Qur'an, part through reading the sayings and traditions
of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), part through my prayers.

 

[Electra]

Me too

This entire sin-plot is a story making technique in order to explain the (mis) interpreted latter "divine revenge" of a Flood - which never happened as this myth simply describes the Milky Way River in the night Sky "running" OVER the Earth and not ON the Earth.

If your God isn´t OK for you, then try some Goddesses of Love

what? you don't think there was some cool hybrid angel-humans?? lol

I love all the gods hahaha, I can't choooosee (and i don't think i will) lololol

 

[Electra]

The story says that Adam saw that the fruit was good for eating and the getting of wisdom and that is why he ate it. He was not deceived by the snake and still knew that God had said not to eat it and that he would die if he did but ate it anyway because he had justified it to himself.
After eating it and when God confronted him, he blamed Eve.
He knew only innocence up till the eating of the fruit and had not experienced evil. Now he was experiencing evil and the consequences of it, which included guilt and so he blamed Eve.
It was not a matter of trusting Eve that made him eat.



Not eating the fruit seems to have been the only things they could have done which was bad. Adam already knew not to to eat and that it would be wrong, even if he was innocent up to that point. The eating gave him the experience of evil, so not he knew the difference between good and evil through experience, which seems to be what the knowledge was all about. Knowing of evil without doing it retained innocence and eating it gave the experiential knowledge.

I personally don't think you can know what evil is until you experience what evil is.
Imagine being explained to what 'hot' is but you have never experienced temperature, i don't think you can 'truly' know that something is going to be 'hot'

Genesis 3 1-7 "When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate."

Or are you using a different verse to come to that conclusion?

 

[Hawkins]

I always found the apple eating incident quiet funny. If it was the tree of knowledge of good vs evil , how would Eve & Adam know that eating the apple was 'bad'? You should obey God, ok, but 'should' is a moralistic word, they do not know about morality yet??

Not knowing good from evil means God keeps them as innocent as possible instead of teaching them what raping is or what murdering is. For humans alone this measure is good enough to keep them from breaking God's Law. However God's creation purpose is always about how God is to live with both angels and humans together. The angels are with a much higher intelligence but a lesser degree of freewill. That's why the establishment in both Eden and planet earth is always a reflection of how God and angels and humans living together. The snake who is Satan also represents the more crafty evil force. The story is about how they gain an upper hand in exploiting the innocence of humans while God is away (which means God starts to let go the freewill for both angels and humans to interact with each other).

Planet earth is actually behaving in a similar fashion. Instead of exploiting human innocence, Satan and his angels exploit human intelligence which is low to blind them from reasoning correctly. That's how humans found the story funny and with a spirit to fight God.

 

[Electra]

Not knowing good from evil means God keeps them as innocent as possible instead of teaching them what raping is or what murdering is. For humans alone this measure is good enough to keep them from breaking God's Law. However God's creation purpose is always about how God is to live with both angels and humans together. The angels are with a much higher intelligence but a lesser degree of freewill. That's why the establishment in both Eden and planet earth is always a reflection of how God and angels and humans living together. The snake who is Satan also represents the more crafty evil force. The story is about how they gain an upper hand in exploiting the innocence of humans while God is away (which means God starts to let go the freewill for both angels and humans to interact with each other).

Planet earth is actually behaving in a similar fashion. Instead of exploiting human innocence, Satan and his angels exploit human intelligence which is low to blind them from reasoning correctly. That's how humans found the story funny and with a spirit to fight God.

That still doesn't answer how you can punish someone for disobeying you when they have no concept of morality?

 

[Hawkins]

That still doesn't answer how you can punish someone for disobeying you when they have no concept of morality?

Law is law. Even in today's human legal systems, when you break the law you are jailed. "I don't know law" cannot be used as a defense in a court!

The question is rather, why ask? It's common sense.

 

[Electra]

Law is law. Even in today's human legal systems, when you break the law you are jailed. "I don't know law" cannot be used as a defense in a court!

The question is rather, why ask? It's common sense.

we can see the concept of 'law' around us in this reality by experiences of ourselves and/or others, if, as the story goes there are two people alone they would have no concept of law,

why ask what?