Love, sex, and spirituality

[dybmh]

It is possible that a person might forgo their own physical gratification for the other person at times, but show me a relationship where one of the partners does not experience physical gratification at any time and then we will have something to talk about.

So, it can't be spiritual sometimes? It's all or nothing?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Usually when that happens to me I grab a cat, but we are all different.

Hmm. Save me one?

(A cat, not a chip.)

 

[JustGeorge]

I have no problem with how you (or anyone else) feels on the topic. Their feelings are theirs, and they have every right to them. The same applies to their behaviors.

However, some people feel differently. There are aspects of sex that some people like me do not find spiritual. In fact, I find it repulsive to be connected to someone else's body. Please note that I have not always felt this way, quite the contrary. When I was first married and for years after that I was a member of Sexaholics Anonymous. Now the tide has turned.

No, it is not okay with other people that I don't like sex, especially the men on dating sites.
This thread is a backlash to that

Yeah, its frustrating to be told how you're supposed to feel, and what you're supposed to like. I'm sorry you have to put up with that on the dating sites.

Funny thing, I do not see people of a strict Abrahamic background approaching sexuality any differently than anyone else.

I do. They might believe that sex should only happen in certain conditions(a common example that might be given is it being okay between married people, others might add the procreation bit), but not all people agree with that.

People with no religious leanings would have a different take.

Some religions feel the sensual experience of sex is sacred(the Kama Sutra is a religious text from Hinduism all about sex, and ideas to enrich it). Tantrics use sexuality(and other things) as a means to merging with God(though Tantra should be undertaken with guidance, its not a DIY thing, if taken seriously).

My attitude towards sex has nothing to do with my religion, as other Baha'is will testify to. Many years ago I used to get in arguments with other Baha'is on Planet Baha'i when I said that sex is not necessary. It never bothered me that they thought it is necessary, but it bothered them that I thought it wasn't.

Perhaps my attitude isn't acceptable to other people, but it is legitimate for me.

I struggled in the window of time before I met my husband. I'm not about casual sex at all, and while I didn't necessarily feel the need for marriage to participate in it, it wasn't something I could bring myself to do without a deep connection(and love). I, too, was told this was wrong, and I needed to relax. Not just from men who wanted to date me, but female friends, too. Surprisingly, the only person that had my back was a friend with a sex addiction; she said it was my body, and I shouldn't do anything with it I wasn't comfortable with. A strange ally, for sure.

I would still agree with her; its your body and you can do and not do what you want with it. If men are giving you crap about it on dating sites, just block them, as they're probably not the right fit.

 

[Trailblazer]

First question. What, other than sex, differentiates a marriage from a friendship?

Maybe nothing, but that does not mean that sex is a necessary component of every loving committed relationship.

Second question. Other than breaking religious or cultural customs, what is wrong with sex outside marriage? If nobody is harmed, how does having casual sex differ morally from say playing a round of golf with someone who is not your married partner?

I am nobody's judge or jury, so I will never say anything is wrong with it. To each his or her own.
IMO, it is only wrong if a person claims to be a member of a certain religion and then goes against their scriptures and/or breaks the laws of that religion because that is hypocrisy.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

If there was no love it would not be spiritual.

For what reason? Why does spirituality require "love"? (And which love, at that?)

 

[Trailblazer]

I do feel that it's often misused and focused on too much, however.

Yes, and that is my major problem with it.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, it can't be spiritual sometimes? It's all or nothing?

I do not speak for anyone except myself. What is spiritual for one person is not spiritual for another person.
My experience with sex was physical, so I don't relate to sex as spiritual.

According to what I see in the New Testament sex is not spiritual, but not everyone adheres to the NT, and even those who do adhere to it don't interpret it the way I do.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hmm. Save me one?

(A cat, not a chip.)

I have plenty of cats to go around but they don't usually do well being delivered by FedEX.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeah, its frustrating to be told how you're supposed to feel, and what you're supposed to like.

You of all people should be able to understand that, given all the cats and dogs and kids that you have!

 

[Trailblazer]

For what reason? Why does spirituality require "love"? (And which love, at that?)

If there was no love for each other sex would not be spiritual in a religious sense, IMO.
Not everyone shares my opinion but I have a right to it, just as other people have a right to their opinions.

 

[Aštra’el]

If there was no love it would not be spiritual.

I disagree.

I would say… when someone derives a surreal, otherworldly, transformative, or fateful experience from a sexual encounter, it could be “spiritual”. If there is some religious quality to it, like ritual sex, or sex done in service to or in celebration of a deity, or if you feel your god or goddess expressing themselves through you during the act… it could be “spiritual”. I mean these are just some examples . “Love” needn’t have anything to do with sex being spiritual.

 

[Trailblazer]

I disagree.

I would say… when someone derives a surreal, otherworldly, transformative, or fateful experience from a sexual encounter, it could be “spiritual”. If there is some religious quality to it, like ritual sex, or sex done in service to or celebration of a deity… it could be “spiritual”. I mean these are just some examples . “Love” needn’t have anything to do with it being spiritual.

That is true, and the same would apply to psychedelic drugs. Back in my day, I felt like I had a lot of spiritual experiences when I took those drugs.

 

[Trailblazer]

I thank everyone for their input thus far. I can see another point of view now, but whether I will change mine is TBD.
I have been this way a long time so I am probably not amenable to change. I am the way I am not because I am a Baha'i, because most Baha'is are not like me, but because of my own personal experiences with sexuality. I am sure my attitude goes way back to my childhood, but it was mostly tempered by my many years in marriage, since I never had sex out of wedlock.

 

[JustGeorge]

You of all people should be able to understand that, given all the cats and dogs and kids that you have!

Yup. I still get told what to do and how to feel, though not in the bedroom department anymore.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yup. I still get told what to do and how to feel, though not in the bedroom department anymore.

Not anymore?
I was only told what to do in that department once, when a neighbor left a note on the door telling me to be quiet up there.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

If there was no love for each other sex would not be spiritual in a religious sense, IMO.
Not everyone shares my opinion but I have a right to it, just as other people have a right to their opinions.

Yes, and I'm curious what the rationale is for that opinion.

 

[stvdv]

I believe that love is spiritual, but sex is not love, so sex is not spiritual. I believe that sex for the purpose of procreation is spiritual, since it is sex out of love for a potential new being that will be created, but aside from procreation, sex is a physical act that is engaged in to gratify the desires of the flesh in order to experience physical pleasure

Amen to That

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I thank everyone for their input thus far. I can see another point of view now, but whether I will change mine is TBD.
I have been this way a long time so I am probably not amenable to change. I am the way I am not because I am a Baha'i, because most Baha'is are not like me, but because of my own personal experiences with sexuality. I am sure my attitude goes way back to my childhood, but it was mostly tempered by my many years in marriage, since I never had sex out of wedlock.

You don't have to change if you don't want to. You should never do anything sexual you're uncomfortable with. If the person knows your boundaries and keeps violating them or doesn't respect them, that's just abusive. Some people just aren't interested in sex and that's fine.

 

[stvdv]

On the Spiritual Singles dating site there is a Profile question about sex, and men can choose between Not Important, Somewhat Important, Important, or Extremely Important

Good question
Eliminates falsehood

The bulk of men I have viewed say sex is Extremely Important. Why does a man who claims to be spiritual say that sex is ‘Extremely Important’ in a relationship?

Obviously, the claim made is proven false by same man
Ignore invonvenient Truth works for non spiritual people

Often the same man also says that spirituality is ‘Extremely Important.’ I consider this contradictory since the man is saying two things that cannot both be true, since they are in conflict with each other

Nobody can refute that; they will try though

 

[stvdv]

Why pretend that sex is spiritual? Anyone who has ever read the Bible knows that sex that is engaged in to gratify the desires of the flesh is not spiritual because the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit

Spot on