Love, sex, and spirituality

[PoetPhilosopher]

You don't have to change if you don't want to. You should never do anything sexual you're uncomfortable with. If the person knows your boundaries and keeps violating them or doesn't respect them, that's just abusive. Some people just aren't interested in sex and that's fine.

Yeah.

There's one thing I wonder. It's, whether @Trailblazer might have a better time if she tells men she's asexual. To try and clear up any confusion.

Then if sex does happen anyway and on its own time, well it's not like identifying as asexual and having sex breaks some moral code. It's not even really unheard of.

But there are some bad people out there that take people saying "I'm asexual" as a challenge, but usually those are people to avoid either way. Such people aren't people that are really good to be around.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, and I'm curious what the rationale is for that opinion.

A rationale is a set of reasons or a logical basis for a course of action or a particular belief.
The rationale for my belief that without love sex would not be spiritual is according to the definition of spiritual below.
Without love sex would not affect the soul, but rather sex would only be a physical act relating to the physical body.

Spiritual: relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
what does spiritual mean - Google Search

 

[Trailblazer]

Some people just aren't interested in sex and that's fine.

It's fine as long as I don't hook up with a man who is interested, as then I would have to have a long talk with him.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeah.

There's one thing I wonder. It's, whether @Trailblazer might have a better time if she tells men she's asexual. To try and clear up any confusion.

Then if sex does happen anyway and on its own time, well it's not like identifying as asexual and having sex breaks some moral code. It's not even really unheard of.

But there are some bad people out there that take people saying "I'm asexual" as a challenge, but usually those are people to avoid either way. Such people aren't people that are really good to be around.

I might not be asexual, I might be demisexual. I just learned that from @Exaltist Ethan a couple of days ago.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Without love sex would not affect the soul, but rather sex would only be a physical act relating to the physical body.

And this is where the singular word for "love" really falls short.

 

[Alien826]

It's fine as long as I don't hook up with a man who is interested, as then I would have to have a long talk with him.

As I think we discussed in another thread, the point is not really whether sex is important or not, but that if one partner really wants it and the other really doesn't it's a recipe for disaster. Other things can also be problematical, for example I had a disastrous marriage where I was mostly interested in intellectual pursuits and she liked physical activities. The reason a sexual imbalance is so particularly difficult is that the higher sexed partner has nowhere else to go for satisfaction.

The solution is to find someone that reflects your own wishes. I'm sure there are men out there that are as disinterested in sex as you are, yet the two of you would suit each other very well in other ways.

By the way, when I discuss sexual fidelity or infidelity, I am deliberately leaving out a very important factor - children. For our species, the one on one exclusive partnership seem to have worked very well to bring up children, and sex works well to keep the man around to fulfill his part in the deal. When children are not involved though, I feel we don't have to stick so rigidly to the rules.

 

[Trailblazer]

As I think we discussed in another thread, the point is not really whether sex is important or not, but that if one partner really wants it and the other really doesn't it's a recipe for disaster. Other things can also be problematical, for example I had a disastrous marriage where I was mostly interested in intellectual pursuits and she liked physical activities. The reason a sexual imbalance is so particularly difficult is that the higher sexed partner has nowhere else to go for satisfaction.

That's true, it is problematic if there is a sexual desire imbalance in a marriage, since there is nowhere else to go, at least not where you should go. Sex was not a problem in my marriage when we were having it, since we fell into a predictable routine. We were both interested in intellectual pursuits although I was also interested in physical activities. We both loved cats and we were both Baha'is. Sadly, I do not expect to find that again.

The solution is to find someone that reflects your own wishes. I'm sure there are men out there that are as disinterested in sex as you are, yet the two of you would suit each other very well in other ways.

I do not hold out much hope that I will find a man who is not interested in sex, so the best I can hope for is that he is not extremely interested, since that would not work for me. I could force myself to have sex, but I am not one to grin and bear it and I am not into faking responses. I might be more in the mood to have sex if I could get some help around the house and yard, and if he would help me comb out these cats he could have sex all night long! I would have to brush up on my skills though, since they are really rusty.

By the way, when I discuss sexual fidelity or infidelity, I am deliberately leaving out a very important factor - children. For our species, the one on one exclusive partnership seem to have worked very well to bring up children, and sex works well to keep the man around to fulfill his part in the deal. When children are not involved though, I feel we don't have to stick so rigidly to the rules.

That's true, but children do not always hold the marriage together. My late husband's father was married three times but the third wife was a charm. His mother never married again but she lived with a man.

 

[Truthseeker]

I might not be asexual, I might be demisexual. I just learned that from @Exaltist Ethan a couple of days ago.

Demisexual:

Demisexuality is a sexual orientation in which a person feels sexually attracted to someone only after they've developed a close emotional bond with them. Forming a bond doesn't guarantee a person will feel a sexual attraction, but the bond is needed before sexual activity is even possible.

Demisexual: Understanding What It Means & FAQs

 

[PearlSeeker]

I believe that love is spiritual, but sex is not love, so sex is not spiritual. I believe that sex for the purpose of procreation is spiritual, since it is sex out of love for a potential new being that will be created, but aside from procreation, sex is a physical act that is engaged in to gratify the desires of the flesh in order to experience physical pleasure.

On the Spiritual Singles dating site there is a Profile question about sex, and men can choose between Not Important, Somewhat Important, Important, or Extremely Important. The bulk of men I have viewed say sex is Extremely Important. Why does a man who claims to be spiritual say that sex is ‘Extremely Important’ in a relationship? Often the same man also says that spirituality is ‘Extremely Important.’ I consider this contradictory since the man is saying two things that cannot both be true, since they are in conflict with each other.

Why pretend that sex is spiritual? Anyone who has ever read the Bible knows that sex that is engaged in to gratify the desires of the flesh is not spiritual because the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit.

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

1 John 2:16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.

Galatians 5:16-17 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

(Most) men are different than (most) women in that regard. This has nothing to do with lack of spirituality. It's the way we are made by Nature/God/evolution/whatever. Maybe as a woman you can't imagine how it is to naturally feel daily a great sexual desire.

 

[Trailblazer]

Demisexual:

Demisexuality is a sexual orientation in which a person feels sexually attracted to someone only after they've developed a close emotional bond with them. Forming a bond doesn't guarantee a person will feel a sexual attraction, but the bond is needed before sexual activity is even possible.

Demisexual: Understanding What It Means & FAQs

Yes, that is what happened with Lewis, but it happened in 3 weeks.
I had an immediate emotional bond, then after that I was sexually attracted to him.

 

[Trailblazer]

(Most) men are different than (most) women in that regard. This has nothing to do with lack of spirituality. It's the way we are made by Nature/God/evolution/whatever. Maybe as a woman you can't imagine how it is to naturally feel daily a great sexual desire.

I guess that is because of testosterone. In used to believe that male testosterone levels drop as men age but that is not necessarily the case. It is the ability to get an erection that declines as men age but now there is Viagra and Cialis for that.

So what are women supposed to do after menopause when the hormones decline, take hormones? Sorry, no thanks. I did that for a while until I realized there is a serious health risk. I am not going to risk my good health just so I will have more sexual desire.

Since men have a high sex desire throughout their lives, they can either find a younger woman to have sex with, control their desire, or take care of it by themselves.

I can imagine having a high sexual desire daily since I had that from puberty until menopause. However, I did not give in to my desire, I waited till I got married at age 32 to have sex. Sexual desire can be controlled, it does not have to be acted upon.

 

[danieldemol]

...or take care of it by themselves

So you are ok with masturbation? All good by me but don't let the Baha'i Universal House of Justice know lol.

In my opinion

 

[PearlSeeker]

I guess that is because of testosterone. In used to believe that male testosterone levels drop as men age but that is not necessarily the case. It is the ability to get an erection that declines as men age but now there is Viagra and Cialis for that.

So what are women supposed to do after menopause when the hormones decline, take hormones? Sorry, no thanks. I did that for a while until I realized there is a serious health risk. I am not going to risk my good health just so I will have more sexual desire.

Since men have a high sex desire throughout their lives, they can either find a younger woman to have sex with, control their desire, or take care of it by themselves.

I can imagine having a high sexual desire daily since I had that from puberty until menopause. However, I did not give in to my desire, I waited till I got married at age 32 to have sex. Sexual desire can be controlled, it does not have to be acted upon.

As we see from the picture there is less (and more gradual) decrease of testore in man.

Most men learn to control our desire but the feelings/thoughts are always there. Once I talked to a priest (celibate) and he said he focuses intensely on work (also physical) to forget about sex... I agree with you about not taking hormones after menopause. But you can still please a man - vaginal sex is not the only possibility...

 

[Vee]

Why pretend that sex is spiritual? Anyone who has ever read the Bible knows that sex that is engaged in to gratify the desires of the flesh is not spiritual because the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit.

Not everything has to be spiritual. I believe God created sex to be enjoyed and also as a way to bring a couple together. Sex is only contrary to the spirit if it goes against God's law.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

aside from procreation, sex is a physical act that is engaged in to gratify the desires of the flesh in order to experience physical pleasure.

You say that like pleasure for pleasure's sake is a bad thing. It's not.

Why does a man who claims to be spiritual say that sex is ‘Extremely Important’ in a relationship?

Because he finds sex a spiritual experience. Why wouldn't he unless he has been taught that it is impure? A spiritual experience is one featuring a sense of well-being and connection. What is healthy sex if not that?

Why pretend that sex is spiritual? Anyone who has ever read the Bible knows that sex that is engaged in to gratify the desires of the flesh is not spiritual because the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit.

Many reject that way of thinking. I do. People don't gratify flesh. They experience pleasure, which has value in and of itself. Harm does not come from experiencing pleasure. It comes from some of the ways people pursue it, as with drugs, unsafe sex, or gambling. But having a massage or a margarita or a jacuzzi or a night of passion are not inherently harmful or undesirable. Au contraire. They're salutary.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I believe that love is spiritual, but sex is not love, so sex is not spiritual. I believe that sex for the purpose of procreation is spiritual, since it is sex out of love for a potential new being that will be created, but aside from procreation, sex is a physical act that is engaged in to gratify the desires of the flesh in order to experience physical pleasure.

On the Spiritual Singles dating site there is a Profile question about sex, and men can choose between Not Important, Somewhat Important, Important, or Extremely Important. The bulk of men I have viewed say sex is Extremely Important. Why does a man who claims to be spiritual say that sex is ‘Extremely Important’ in a relationship? Often the same man also says that spirituality is ‘Extremely Important.’ I consider this contradictory since the man is saying two things that cannot both be true, since they are in conflict with each other.

Why pretend that sex is spiritual? Anyone who has ever read the Bible knows that sex that is engaged in to gratify the desires of the flesh is not spiritual because the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit.

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

1 John 2:16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.

Galatians 5:16-17 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

It's a connection with the person you love. Some women don't get it because they don't experience it that way apparently.

 

[Wildswanderer]

We are body, mind and soul, and these things are separate and have important aspects to each. Sex is a drive, so it tends to rate pretty highly in the need department.

Not really. We are more integrated than that.
What our soul is doing affects our body and vice versa.

 

[JustGeorge]

Demisexual:

Demisexuality is a sexual orientation in which a person feels sexually attracted to someone only after they've developed a close emotional bond with them. Forming a bond doesn't guarantee a person will feel a sexual attraction, but the bond is needed before sexual activity is even possible.

Demisexual: Understanding What It Means & FAQs

That's me, too.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..Sex is only contrary to the spirit if it goes against God's law.

Yes .. a person who engages in lawful sexual intercourse gets a reward for it..
..in this life and the next.

The converse is also true .. the unlawful brings destruction upon a person.

 

[Alien826]

I do not hold out much hope that I will find a man who is not interested in sex, so the best I can hope for is that he is not extremely interested, since that would not work for me. I could force myself to have sex, but I am not one to grin and bear it and I am not into faking responses. I might be more in the mood to have sex if I could get some help around the house and yard, and if he would help me comb out these cats he could have sex all night long! I would have to brush up on my skills though, since they are really rusty.

I foresee hundreds of men taking lessons in cat grooming!

Oh, and Amazon has lots of products to treat rust.

Just kidding. I really wish you well with your search.