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Love, sex, and spirituality

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Where in the Bible does it say that eating food is contrary to the Spirit?
We all know what 'lust of the flesh' refers to. ;) But maybe sexual desire is okay, as long as it is not 'very strong.'
"Flesh" (in Paul's writings) means natural desires (that are by themselves nothing bad) that get perverted, excessive, uncontrolled, misdirected, unbridled ...

For example eating by itself is not sin. Gluttony is.
 

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Another song on the topic:


Sex & Religion by Steve Vai

Repent, repent, repent ye sinners

What do you think you got
When you thought you had a lot
But all your feelings are dead?
And who do you think you are
When you're reaching for the stars
But all your feelings are dead?
Must you make a decision
Between sex and religion

Why can't you love God in your bed?
Well, Jesus Christ
Is in your bed tonight
To bring you back from the dead
How are you gonna fight
For what you think is right
If all your feelings are dead?
And what can you know of love,
From the eyes of a child to the heavens above
When all your feelings are dead?
It's a tragic condition
Sex and religion
Makin' a manic mess in your head

Jesus Christ
Is in your bed tonight
To bring you back from the dead
Jesus Christ
Or any son of the heatless light
When all your feelings are dead
Resurrection!
I raise my hand high up into the air
Get down on my knees
And then I start a-prayin'
When love walks in
My body begins
I feel my promised land comin'
But I gotta go to hell now
And those creatures
Evangelist preachers
The ones that take money
For the promise of hope
Well, they are dangerous
I'm not dangerous
Brain washing us
And we're not gonna take it
I just want to know
Oh Lord how is it so
How is it that you can take my sins away?
Oh Lord tell me
So I can see the light again
I don't think anybody can take my sins away
But how can the truth be known
If we got little black holes in our souls
And all our feelings are dead?
Are we imprisoned by sex and religion
Or is God the one that's trapped in our mess?
So remember folks
When you kneel to pray
Blow a little kiss to the hypocrites
Good God knows when you turn the other cheek
Which direction you're pointing it
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
If only they knew they might even acquire some cats of their own... :D
Too bad they don't want to go to the trouble to find out what could be theirs.

I've had cats and dogs at different times. I prefer dogs now, but I loved my cats. British Burmese, such lovely personalities.

I may not need it, since it is kind of like riding a bike. Once one learns how to ride a bike, they can never forget it because it gets stored within the procedural memory. ;)

One thing, if you "fall off" during sex, there's not so far to fall as with a bike! :)

I 'might' have met my match, a man who is as rusty as I am.... Don't faint now, wait till I know more. ;)

As you must have expected, I'm not surprised. Lots of (different) fish in the sea. Good luck with this fish, but please be careful. We're all rooting for you, but don't want you to be hurt.[/quote]
 
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CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Another song on the topic:


Sex & Religion by Steve Vai

Repent, repent, repent ye sinners

What do you think you got
When you thought you had a lot
But all your feelings are dead?
And who do you think you are
When you're reaching for the stars
But all your feelings are dead?
Must you make a decision
Between sex and religion

Why can't you love God in your bed?
Well, Jesus Christ
Is in your bed tonight
To bring you back from the dead
How are you gonna fight
For what you think is right
If all your feelings are dead?
And what can you know of love,
From the eyes of a child to the heavens above
When all your feelings are dead?
It's a tragic condition
Sex and religion
Makin' a manic mess in your head

Jesus Christ
Is in your bed tonight
To bring you back from the dead
Jesus Christ
Or any son of the heatless light
When all your feelings are dead
Resurrection!
I raise my hand high up into the air
Get down on my knees
And then I start a-prayin'
When love walks in
My body begins
I feel my promised land comin'
But I gotta go to hell now
And those creatures
Evangelist preachers
The ones that take money
For the promise of hope
Well, they are dangerous
I'm not dangerous
Brain washing us
And we're not gonna take it
I just want to know
Oh Lord how is it so
How is it that you can take my sins away?
Oh Lord tell me
So I can see the light again
I don't think anybody can take my sins away
But how can the truth be known
If we got little black holes in our souls
And all our feelings are dead?
Are we imprisoned by sex and religion
Or is God the one that's trapped in our mess?
So remember folks
When you kneel to pray
Blow a little kiss to the hypocrites
Good God knows when you turn the other cheek
Which direction you're pointing it
That's the choice so many of us were given... religion or sex. Lots of us took sex. But we all know there's a lot of hypocrites in religion doing it and pretending they're not. And for Christians, Jesus tells them not to even have lust in their hearts? And when does desire become lust? And is desiring to be intimate with someone already bad?

Ah, religions and their rules. Some swear by them. Some swear at them.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Sex is a connection to the person you love, and just as many, if not more, women experience it that way.

However, that does not change the fact that sex gratifies the desires of the flesh, not unless you are a-okay with sex with no orgasms. That also does not change the fact that, according to the Bible, what the flesh desires is contrary to the Spirit. Therein lies my problem with sex, as I do not want to engage is 'any activity' that is contrary to the Spirit.
I think you misunderstand. It's not that the bodies desires are inherently evil. It's a question of the intent of the heart. If having sex with your spouse was contrary to the spirit than how could God command people to be fruitful and multiply? Why would song of Solomon that celebrates sex in marriage be in the Bible?
If all it is is a physical act of the flesh, then, yes, it's not in line with God's will. But being intimate with your spouse is definitely in line with God's will.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Where in the Bible does it say that eating food is contrary to the Spirit?
We all know what 'lust of the flesh' refers to. ;) But maybe sexual desire is okay, as long as it is not 'very strong.'

lust: very strong sexual desire.
lust means - Google Search

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

It is not only in the Bible, it is also on the Baha'i Writings.

“It behoveth the people of Bahá to die to the world and all that is therein, to be so detached from all earthly things that the inmates of Paradise may inhale from their garment the sweet smelling savor of sanctity, that all the peoples of the earth may recognize in their faces the brightness of the All-Merciful, and that through them may be spread abroad the signs and tokens of God, the Almighty, the All-Wise. They that have tarnished the fair name of the Cause of God, by following the things of the flesh—these are in palpable error!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 100-101
Lust can be many things. The lust of the eyes isn't only sexual.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If having sex with your spouse was contrary to the spirit than how could God command people to be fruitful and multiply?
However, after you have had all the children you are going to have, the reasons for having sex are different.
Why would song of Solomon that celebrates sex in marriage be in the Bible?
Because marriage is what God desires for us and sex is part of marriage
That is even in the Baha'i Writings.

'The Bahá'í Faith recognizes the value of the sex impulse, but condemns its illegitimate and improper expressions such as free love, companionate marriage and others, all of which it considers positively harmful to man and to the society in which he lives. The proper use of the sex instinct is the natural right of every individual, and it is precisely for this very purpose that the institution of marriage has been established. The Bahá'ís do not believe in the suppression of the sex impulse but in its regulation and control.'

Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File, pp. 364-365
If all it is is a physical act of the flesh, then, yes, it's not in line with God's will. But being intimate with your spouse is definitely in line with God's will.
Sex is not a requirement but I think it is in line with God's will as long as it is sex as an expression of love.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
This is the reply I just got back from a man on Spiritual Singles:

"Thanks so much for the interest and the nice note. I did look over your profile but don't think that we would be compatible. I'm looking for a woman who would be a bit "sexier" than you have indicated. "

The thing is that this man was not sexy-looking at all, so why does he expect to get a sexy woman?
What is it with men and sex? At what age are they willing to give it up and think of other things? Sorry, but I am not playing. I have better things to do. What are these men going to do when they get to the spiritual world where there is no sex? I guess they never think about that.

It looks like I will probably remain single :rolleyes: although I might get a boarder eventually.

The rather odd thing is that this dating site is called Spiritual Singles yet all the men seem to care about is sex.
I think they should change the name to Sexual Singles. :D
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The thing is that this man was not sexy-looking at all, so why does he expect to get a sexy woman?
Do you think that he was referring to your appearance and not your aversion to sex when he said he prefers a sexy woman? Either way, he wants a regular sexual partner and hopes he can find one.

A sexually active gal I know complains that the men she meets are all looking for "a nurse or a purse" - someone to serve them or financially support them.
What is it with men and sex? At what age are they willing to give it up
When they lose the urge or the ability. I don't know that the urge ever goes away. Why should they give it up if they have a willing partner, and if they don't, why shouldn't they seek one?
The rather odd thing is that this dating site is called Spiritual Singles yet all the men seem to care about is sex.
Sexual congress is a spiritual act - or can be. But even so, you can't take those site names literally. What do you bet that the online gambling site https://luckycasino.com/en/ isn't lucky?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Do you think that he was referring to your appearance and not your aversion to sex when he said he prefers a sexy woman?
He said: "Thanks so much for the interest and the nice note. I did look over your profile but don't think that we would be compatible. I'm looking for a woman who would be a bit "sexier" than you have indicated. "

No, I don't think it was because of my physical appearance, I think it is the way that I answered the questions on my profile. While most of my answers about sex were hidden, he probably assumed why, and since they did not align with his answers our percentage scores in that category would not be close.

Many men on dating sites say I look sexy and that might be why younger men send me messages and also why they are surprised when they find out I am not interested in sex.

I do not have an aversion for sex, I am just not interested in it. There is a big difference between those two statements.
I am not interested not only because of a physical lack of desire but because of my mental/spiritual attitude. I believe sex represents attachment to the things of the physical world and I do not want to be attached. I made that decision many years ago, when I started getting back into my religion and taking it seriously. Before that I was full steam ahead on sex.

I have discussed this with my counselor, who counsels clients over age 65 since she is on the Medicare side. By age 70, the bulk of women do not have a desire for sex anymore since hormones drop off markedly after menopause. Many women might continue having sex if they are married or in a partnership, but that doesn't mean they desire sex for themselves, although I am sure there are exceptions since sex is a mental attitude, so if people have convinced themselves they want or need sex they might try to continue having sex even after physical desire drops off.
Either way, he wants a regular sexual partner and hopes he can find one.
I wished him all the best, as I always do. From my perspective he is not very attractive or sexy-looking but he might just get lucky since he has other things that might attract a woman.
A sexually active gal I know complains that the men she meets are all looking for "a nurse or a purse" - someone to serve them or financially support them.
I have not encountered any men on dating sites who are looking for a nurse or a purse. Unless they are dating scammers, they are all financially independent and they are looking for women who want to have sex, usually outside of marriage.
When they lose the urge or the ability. I don't know that the urge ever goes away. Why should they give it up if they have a willing partner, and if they don't, why shouldn't they seek one?
The urge in men might never go away but I don't think it is all physical. I think some of it is a mental attitude - they want sex because it feels good. Even after they lose the ability they want sex so much that they are wiling to risk their lives by taking dangerous drugs for impotence. It is also a medical fact that older men having sex are prone to heart attacks.

Nevertheless, if men want to have sex I see nothing wrong with them seeking a willing partner. However, if men set this as their highest priority, I think that is sad, because they are missing out on what is most important in a relationship, especially in older age - friendship and companionship. Sex is not going to hold a relationship together in the long run, only love can do that.
Sexual congress is a spiritual act - or can be. But even so, you can't take those site names literally. What do you bet that the online gambling site https://luckycasino.com/en/ isn't lucky?
Sex can have a spiritual component as an expression of love if two people are in love, but not all men, or women, limit sex to a loving relationship. For many it is just a recreational activity.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No, I don't think it was because of my physical appearance, I think it is the way that I answered the questions on my profile.
That's probably correct. You wrote, "this man was not sexy-looking at all, so why does he expect to get a sexy woman?" That made me think that you understood his disinterest in you was about looks. I'm sure that you're a fine looking woman, but even relatively physically unappealing women can generally find a willing sexual partner if she's willing. He likely said no thank you to abstinence in a committed relationship and not to your appearance.
I do not have an aversion for sex, I am just not interested in it. There is a big difference between those two statements.
I am not interested not only because of a physical lack of desire but because of my mental/spiritual attitude. I believe sex represents attachment to the things of the physical world and I do not want to be attached.
A little later, you wrote, "Many women might continue having sex if they are married or in a partnership, but that doesn't mean they desire sex for themselves." That's what disinterest in sex without aversion to it looks like - you don't pursue it or avoid it. According to your comment, you actively avoid sex because you see it as having an adverse effect on you.
I have not encountered any men on dating sites who are looking for a nurse or a purse.
You mean none that said so. You wouldn't expect to be able to determine that until you had been in a relationship with somebody for long enough to determine what his motives were. The commonest ones would be sex, companionship, being served (cooking, cleaning), and/or being supported.
The urge in men might never go away but I don't think it is all physical. I think some of it is a mental attitude - they want sex because it feels good.
You seem to disapprove - to consider that an insufficient reason to pursue sex.
if men want to have sex I see nothing wrong with them seeking a willing partner. However, if men set this as their highest priority, I think that is sad
If a man who wants companionship with sex can find it, why should he settle for celibacy? It's a deal breaker for many, but might be one of many, and one he'd compromise on if necessary. If he had to choose between a drug addict who gave him sex and stable partner who didn't, he might choose the latter, but not until he gives up on finding a stable sexual partner.
Sex is not going to hold a relationship together in the long run, only love can do that.
Disagree. Marriage at our age (I'm almost 69) is different. Our goals are not the same as they were when we were young. There needn't be sex or love to have a stable, mutually beneficial relationship. They don't even need to ever be in the same bed. It can be purely transactional - each is better off together than alone for whatever reasons. Maybe all she wants is protection or somebody to call an ambulance if necessary and all he wants is regular sex and to be in the company of a woman.
Sex can have a spiritual component as an expression of love if two people are in love, but not all men, or women, limit sex to a loving relationship. For many it is just a recreational activity.
There doesn't need to be love for sex to be a spiritual experience. Respect will do. Nor does sex need to be a spiritual experience to be worth pursuing.
 

TLK Valentine

Read the books that others would burn.
Where in the Bible does it say that eating food is contrary to the Spirit?
We all know what 'lust of the flesh' refers to. ;) But maybe sexual desire is okay, as long as it is not 'very strong.'

Well, He did say to "be fruitful and multiply..." and He designed the parts that accomplish that to be fun to use...

Not every religious obligation should be a chore. ;)
 
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