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Love thy friend as thyself.

svetlu

New Member
Love thy friend, or neighbor,as thyself, taught by the great Kabbalist Rabbi Akiva, is maxim that virtually all religions and teachings have adopted. But this is a very dangerous maxim if lived without its final goal - to reach the Creator. Rabbi Yehuda Ashlag writes that this is exactly what happened in Russia's communism. It was doomed to fail, and they continue to pay a heavy price because they used nature's law of altruism without its final purpose: to reach the Creator through equivalence of form with Him.
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Smoke

Done here.
Rabbi Yehuda Ashlag writes that this is exactly what happened in Russia's communism. It was doomed to fail, and they continue to pay a heavy price because they used nature's law of altruism without its final purpose: to reach the Creator through equivalence of form with Him.
I don't think they used it at all. If you love people as you love yourself, you don't line them up and shoot them or send them off to Solovki.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Love thy friend, or neighbor,as thyself, taught by the great Kabbalist Rabbi Akiva, ...
That is a rather interesting (and, I would suggest, entirely misleading) characterization of Rabbi Akiva. As for the teaching in question, it obviously derives from Vayikra/Leviticus 19 and, in fact, is subject to an alternate translation. As I noted here back in May 2004 ...
Normally rendered:
  • love thy neighbour as thyself
it can also be read:
  • love thy neighbor - he is like you
This seems to me the more profound interpretation.​
Rather than an appeal to naive altruism, it was an appeal for a religious recognition of our common humanity.
 

Thales of Ga.

Skeptic Griggsy
I propose the Platinum Rule that we be nice each to the other. As a rational being, how can I maintain as John Beversluis, notes that others have to defer to me ho matter how I act when I don't want them to harm me. This is more than prudence.

The Tanakh and the Christian Testament, however, have a limited sense of love as they allow slavery and such! It took the humanism of the Enlightenment to get even the Quaker's, of whom many themselves had slaves to abolish slavery!
Then as John Hospers, that egoist, reminds us that sociopaths and sadists and masochists have different ideas of what is nice.:thud:
Some of us,however, don't love themselves, and thus it is harder for them to love others,eh?
Ah, Yeshua himself reveled in vituperation of others and in telling of Hell! Some love of neighbor!:devil:
 

autonomous1one1

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Love thy friend, or neighbor,as thyself, taught by the great Kabbalist Rabbi Akiva, is maxim that virtually all religions and teachings have adopted. But this is a very dangerous maxim if lived without its final goal - to reach the Creator. Rabbi Yehuda Ashlag writes that this is exactly what happened in Russia's communism. It was doomed to fail, and they continue to pay a heavy price because they used nature's law of altruism without its final purpose: to reach the Creator through equivalence of form with Him.
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Greetings svetlu. As you mention, many religions and teachings have adopted 'love thy neighbor as thyself.' But would you say that very few within those groups know and understand the final purpose to reach the Creator through equivalence of form with Him? What are the dangers that you see if lived without that final goal?

Regards,
a..1
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
Love thy friend, or neighbor,as thyself, taught by the great Kabbalist Rabbi Akiva, is maxim that virtually all religions and teachings have adopted. But this is a very dangerous maxim if lived without its final goal - to reach the Creator. Rabbi Yehuda Ashlag writes that this is exactly what happened in Russia's communism. It was doomed to fail, and they continue to pay a heavy price because they used nature's law of altruism without its final purpose: to reach the Creator through equivalence of form with Him.

First of all, welcome to the Forums!

With all due respect, I believe that such famous comments upon Vayikra 19:18 as are generally quoted in Rabbinic literature are mostly the province of Hillel, rather than Rabbi Akiva. Also, while it certainly appears that Rabbi Akiva was one of the Yordei ha-Merkavah ("Those Who Descend To The Heavenly Throne," the earliest known mystical precursors of Kabbalah), that is not quite the same as being a Kabbalist, which invokes a tradition that was built later upon the deep foundations Rabbi Akiva and his fellows set down. Kabbalah as we know it is, I think, really a product of the end of the Hekhalot period, some time toward the end of the era of the Geonim (so, say tenth or eleventh century, give or take). But certainly it is fair to characterize Rabbi Akiva as a mystic.

And while I am always eager to defend the Jewish origins of ideas or phrases, I believe that the sentiments of v'ahavta l'reyecha kamocha are expressed similarly in many diverse religious traditions, including Hinduism, which predates us (though I think we came upon the same idea separately, not that we somehow got it from them).

I think it clarifies matters to adopt the hypothesis I am beginning to hear among many Biblical scholars-- I myself heard it from the late Rabbi Dr. David Lieber, and from Dr. Ziony Zevit, at the American Jewish University-- that the word ahavah, which has come to mean "love," originally started out meaning something a little closer to "valuation" or "respect." Especially if you look at the verse in context with verses 16-17, with which verse 18 forms kind of a complete unit of thought.

16- Do not go mongering gossip amongst your people; do not stand idle by the spilt blood of your fellow; I am YHVH.
17- Do not nurture hatred for your brother in your heart, rather, you must surely confront your neighbor, and so not bear sin because of him.
18- Carry no vendettas, nor harbor grudges, but respect your fellow as yourself; I am YHVH.

This group of verses represents a clear directive concerning preserving social order and avoiding unhealthy relations within the community. Put simply, don't publicly do things to rouse anger against yourself, don't do those things privately, talk honestly with your fellows so no misunderstandings occur, let minor grievances go and don't let them fester, and remember that other people are just as deserving of respect and valuation as you are yourself. I think in its original context, this was an extremely pshuti (plainly written, pragmatic) verse: the occasional infixion of "I am YHVH" throughout much of Vayikra was likely not in its original context mystical, but a simple statement of authority: "you must do these things because I am YHVH, and I say so."

Which is not to dismiss the very fine drashah of the Ba'al ha-Sulam (Reb Yehudah Leib Ashlag), that the verse is intended to remind one that we must value and respect others because we are all tzalmei elohim (images of God), and it is ultimately through the reflection of God's glory in human souls that we can most easily come to find and know something of our Creator.

That said, I don't think that was what was going on in Communist Russia was a case of v'ahavta l'reyecha kamocha run amuck. They don't seem to have been respecting much of anyone like themselves.....
 
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Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member
y'all should really check the dates on posts, if they're from 2007 then don't reply
 

autonomous1one1

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
y'all should really check the dates on posts, if they're from 2007 then don't reply
Hey Zardoz. Is it not true that one is free to raise a thread at any time, or do you prefer one to repeat a topic that has already been covered rather than searching what has been covered before? Of course, one might be cautioned that if the thread is three years old the previous posters may not respond, :) but new ones might.
 

Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member
Hey Zardoz. Is it not true that one is free to raise a thread at any time, or do you prefer one to repeat a topic that has already been covered rather than searching what has been covered before? Of course, one might be cautioned that if the thread is three years old the previous posters may not respond, :) but new ones might.

Forum 'gravedigging' is frowned upon (if not actually against the rules) on many forums, for exactly the reason you mention; new posters posting questions/rebuttals for inactive members
Sometimes it's OK say if the topic is timely or the OP is still an active member or if the original topic didn't ever get an adequate reply
On the forum I mod, if I see a 'me too!' reply to a thread long dead, I just delete that new post

In general, I prefer to start a new topic if I can't find a thread on that topic in the recent past to reply to
 

autonomous1one1

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Forum 'gravedigging' is frowned upon (if not actually against the rules) on many forums, for exactly the reason you mention; new posters posting questions/rebuttals for inactive members
Sometimes it's OK say if the topic is timely or the OP is still an active member or if the original topic didn't ever get an adequate reply
On the forum I mod, if I see a 'me too!' reply to a thread long dead, I just delete that new post

In general, I prefer to start a new topic if I can't find a thread on that topic in the recent past to reply to
Thank you Zardoc. That's good to know. Not to be repetitive and tying information together was leading one astray - to the graveyard.
 
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