Tiberius
Well-Known Member
If that is what you think of my belief that is ok
Do you understand why I view your belief the way that I do?
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Loved ones in hell - take 2.
- Thread starter Deo Vindice
- Start date
Do you understand why I view your belief the way that I do?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Honestly i dont worry about what you think of my belief
since you are a non believer i understand it is difficult for you to grasp the idea of a God who we say is all powerful and still he leave us mostly alone.
But there is a reason why it is like that.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
I wasn't asking you any of that. I was asking if you could understand my position, even if you don't agree with it.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
without knowing how much study in to different religious scriptures you have done, it is impossible for me to put my self in your shoes and see it from your p.o.v.
Maybe i do not understand why there is so much skepticism
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Then let me make it clearer.
Do you understand that someone might find it hard to believe your claims when God can overcome the issues I have mentioned simply by snapping his fingers?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Yes i do understand that and i respect their right to believe that way
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't ask God what he can do for me, I look at what I can do for God.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
That is also a very good way to do it
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
If you understood and accepted the reasons why God does not do what you want Him to do it might be easier to believe in God.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
And neither one is mutually exclusive.That is also a very good way to do it
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
TrueAnd neither one is mutually exclusive.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I understand your position because I have posted to many more atheists than believers for the last eight years.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
There seems to be no good reason though. Certainly none that has ever been shown to me.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That's true, although God has no fingers.
There us something to be gained, you just cannot understand what it is, but hopefully you understand when you get to the next world. That is the World of Lights where we realize many things we could not have known in this world, even by reading scriptures.
I just thought of a book that might help you understand why we have to start our spiritual journey in this physical world.
https://www.amazon.com/Purpose-Physical-Reality-John-Hatcher/dp/1931847231
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Why not? Why can't he have fingers if he wants fingers?
But there is nothing that we can gain, nothing we can work to understand, nothing we can realise that we can't get by God just snapping his fingers. He is omnipotent, after all.
Are you offering to purchase this book for me?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
"If you understood and accepted the reasons why God does not do what you want Him to do it might be easier to believe in God."
Does it make any logical sense that an omnipotent/omniscient God would do what YOU want Him to do as opposed to what He wants to do?
(a) An omnipotent God does not have to do anything that He does not want to do because nobody can make Him.
(b) An omniscient God knows everything, so He knows what is best for the humans that He created.
Once you accept those two basic premises you can build on them.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Given that I don't accept that God even exists in the first place, you've got a lot of work before you'll get me accepting either one of your claims here.
Of course, I can't help but notice that you avoid my question and refuse to provide any possible explanation why God doesn't just snap his fingers and make it happen. You also seem to be under the mistaken impression that I'm telling God what to do. I'm not. If God has a good reason for not just snapping his fingers and doing it, that's fine. I'm just asking what that reason is.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, omnipotent does not mean 'can do anything.' It means All-Powerful. Gid cannot change His nature because then He would not be God anymore. God cannot have fingers like a man because God is Spirit.
No, omnipotent does not mean 'can do anything.' It means All-Powerful. God cannot do for us what we need to do for ourselves. God cannot live our lives for us and become who we will become. We have to do that.
No, but you can at least look inside and read what is free to read. Then you can decide if you want to buy it.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Work is my middle name. You have no idea how much time I have logged in posting to atheists.
It started on other forums and continued here.
Simply put, because God only does what God chooses to do.
Omnipotence implies ability but it also implies that God only USES that ability as He chooses to use it, NOT as you want Him to use it. Here is what omnipotence implies, in a nutshell:
“God witnesseth that there is no God but Him, the Gracious, the Best-Beloved. All grace and bounty are His. To whomsoever He will He giveth whatsoever is His wish. He, verily, is the All-Powerful, the Almighty, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.” Gleanings, p. 73
“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest.He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, p, 284
“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209
He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain.
· That means you have no right to question what God ordains. It is what it is and YOU cannot change it.
for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will.
· That means God has complete power and He does whatever He chooses to do, which implies that He is not going to do what you think He should do or what you want Him to do, unless He chooses to do it.
To whomsoever He will He giveth whatsoever is His wish.
· That means if God feels like giving you something you will get it but if not you won’t.
God gives us reasons why He chooses to do what He does and does not do and those reasons can be found in the scriptures. If you have specific questions the answers can be found in scriptures. But of you do not accept the answers then it is like you are challenging God. We cannot challenge God and win. God always wins because God is omnipotent.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
So the all-powerful being doesn't have the power to give himself fingers.
So the all-powerful being that created the universe in such a way that we need to live a life here on earth to achieve certain things didn't have the power to set it up any differently.
So far your position has been rather unconvincing to me. I'm not going to spend money to read an argument for a position I doubt will convince me.