Made Me Think

[fullyveiled muslimah]

The thread about hell and it being eternal made me think about it from an Islamic POV. Do any of my brothers and sisters know why hell is forever as well as paradise?

 

[Sahar]

There are some scholars who see that there is an end for Hell and it's not eternal. They say after purifying its dwellers from their kufr, there won't be any need for Hell after that. And absolutely, Sheikh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah is the most famous one for this opinion.

 

[maro]

because...1)kuffr is not a normal sin ,but it's the greatest ,and only Allah knows how great it's ,that's why we can't ask him :why?

(2)iman is not that difficult ,one doesn't need more than a heart , some logic ,two eyes., and a sincere prayer for his lord to guide him... and that's it ,the truth is not that vague and complicated as some might think , it's simple and fit's with human pure instinct

(3) the quran asocciated kuffr with arrogance more than once,the kaffir thinks he is much higher than submitting to his creator,or he is much higher than to follow the prophets,just like ibless thought he is much higher than obeying his lord and greet Adam with sojod ( prostration in humility )

(4)we take our chance fully in this life ,to express what we may do for eternity ,read the verses with me sis. ,

(([6:27] If you could but see when they are made to stand before the Fire and will say, Oh, wouldthat we could be returned [to life on earth] and not deny the signs of our Lord and be among the believers. [6:28.] But what they concealed before has [now] appeared to them. And even if they were returned, they would return to that which they were forbidden; and indeed, they are liars.))

the verses say that they after seeing the fire with both eyes , they will insist on their kuffr if they were returned back (hopeless case )

(5) if they lived for eternity they wouldnot believe ,no matter what , they will insist on their kuffr forever

(([6:111] And even if We had sent down to them the angels [with the message] and the dead spoke to them [of it] and We gathered together every [created] thing in front of them, they would not believe unless Allāh should will. But most of them, [of that], are ignorant.))

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

the verses say that they after seeing the fire with both eyes , they will insist on their kuffr if they were returned back (hopeless case ) (5) if they lived for eternity they wouldnot believe ,no matter what , they will insist on their kuffr forever

This is the key sis. The intention for kufr persists beyond the scope of life. Up until the time of death the kafir (and Allah kows best who is a kafir) intends that if they could have lived forever they would have done so in disbelief. The intention of kufr forever makes the punishment match the kufr. Just as a believer intended that for as long as they exist they would believe in Allah. Allah matches the reward with the intent.

What we must also not forget is that when Adam was sent to this world, Allah brought forth every human being who would ever walk this earth, together with full capability of thought and reasoning, to admit that Allah was indeed their Lord. We made an oath while seeing Allah, that when He sent us to our lives in this dunya, we would not forget that oath, and we would worship Him. Most of us forgot, and when it was brought to our remembrance we either reejcted it or accepted it.

In short there is no excuse for disbelief after a lifetime has been granted to accept Allah as He is.

172. And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam's loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes! We testify," lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: "Verily, we have been unaware of this

Here Allah says that He gathered mankind together to make such a declaration for the express purpose of removing the excuse that we had never heard of Allah or anything of the sort.


Then Allah says about proofs and evidences, where to look:

185. Do they not look in the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all things that Allâh has created, and that it may be that the end of their lives is near. In what message after this will they then believe?


Here Allah is telling us to study on HIs creation to see His existance in it, and that He is as He states.

There are some scholars who see that there is an end for Hell and it's not eternal. They say after purifying its dwellers from their kufr, there won't be any need for Hell after that. And absolutely, Sheikh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah is the most famous one for this opinion.

There are those that will be let out surely, they are people who had even iman as small as an atom, they did not place partners with Allah. There are those who are confined by Allah in hellfire therein to abide forever. So hell is eternal. If hell was not eternal then paradise would not be either.

 

[TashaN]

There are some scholars who see that there is an end for Hell and it's not eternal. They say after purifying its dwellers from their kufr, there won't be any need for Hell after that. And absolutely, Sheikh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah is the most famous one for this opinion.

I think that opinion was of Ibn hazm, a student of Shikh of Islam, Ibn Taymiyah.

He used this verse for that purpose and talked about it in deratils.

[107] They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: for thy Lord is the (sure) Accomplisher of what He planneth. (Quran 11:107)

He used the part in red "فعال لما يريد in arabic" for that purpose.

Thanks FVM for this topic and i'll come back to comment on it "God willing".

 

[Peace]

Allah subhanahu wa ta`ala forgives all sins except associating partners with Him.
Those who die associating partners with God will surely go to Hell as God made it clear.
God is Just and Merciful, we live in His bounties and blessings and He sent us several messages and warnings, so those who still refuse to follow good advice out of their own free will, what should be the result? Would a person not have resigned his/her own fate to eternal misery, having refused to strive towards paradise?
If there were no reward for good deeds what would encourage us to do good? If there is no punishment for bad deeds and sins and evil, what would prevent us and dicourage us from commiting major sins and doing evil? One of Allah's names is the Just, He is more just than we can imagine, and that's the reason that He cannot equate evil persons with good persons or treat them in the same manner.
We can just ask ourselves and say: why rewarding someone with Paradise while he did nothing to deserve it.

Allah swt says: So whosoever does good equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant) shall see it. And whosoever does evil equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant) shall see it. (99:7-8)


May Allah forgive our sins and made us among the dwellers of Paradise and thus be able to meet there and be the companions of our beloved Prophet salla Lahu `alayhi wa sallam!! ameen

Peace

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Thanks FVM for this topic and i'll come back to comment on it "God willing".

As I said the similar topic in another forum made me think about it, as well we should think about our deaths and the day in which we must stand before Allah to render an account. May Allah save us from kufr, shirk, and nifaq, at the time of death allow us iman in our hearts and kalima on our tongues. And when we are laid in the qabr to protect us from the punishment, and allow us to answer munkar and nakeer. And when we are raised up to give our book of deeds in our right hands. And when we stand before Him to allow us shade under the arsh of Allah, on a day when there will be no shade besides this. May Allah allow us to render our accounts quickly, to be saved from the calamities of that day, to place us among the mumineen, muslimeen, sabireen, and muttaqeen. And may Allah grant us entry in paradise and safety form His anger and His punishments...Ameen!

 

[Peace]

As I said the similar topic in another forum made me think about it, as well we should think about our deaths and the day in which we must stand before Allah to render an account. May Allah save us from kufr, shirk, and nifaq, at the time of death allow us iman in our hearts and kalima on our tongues. And when we are laid in the qabr to protect us from the punishment, and allow us to answer munkar and nakeer. And when we are raised up to give our book of deeds in our right hands. And when we stand before Him to allow us shade under the arsh of Allah, on a day when there will be no shade besides this. May Allah allow us to render our accounts quickly, to be saved from the calamities of that day, to place us among the mumineen, muslimeen, sabireen, and muttaqeen. And may Allah grant us entry in paradise and safety form His anger and His punishments...Ameen!

ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen ya Rab al-'alamin!!! آمين يارب العالمين

 

[neves]

As I said the similar topic in another forum made me think about it, as well we should think about our deaths and the day in which we must stand before Allah to render an account. May Allah save us from kufr, shirk, and nifaq, at the time of death allow us iman in our hearts and kalima on our tongues. And when we are laid in the qabr to protect us from the punishment, and allow us to answer munkar and nakeer. And when we are raised up to give our book of deeds in our right hands. And when we stand before Him to allow us shade under the arsh of Allah, on a day when there will be no shade besides this. May Allah allow us to render our accounts quickly, to be saved from the calamities of that day, to place us among the mumineen, muslimeen, sabireen, and muttaqeen. And may Allah grant us entry in paradise and safety form His anger and His punishments...Ameen!

Ameen...

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Sooooo we ain't talkin about this no more?

 

[Sahar]

There are those that will be let out surely, they are people who had even iman as small as an atom, they did not place partners with Allah. There are those who are confined by Allah in hellfire therein to abide forever. So hell is eternal. If hell was not eternal then paradise would not be either.

No, i was talking about the kuffar.
Some scholars said that Jahannam will remain and last for ages after that it will vanish and its dwellers will come out of it after they become purified from kufr by what they tasted in Hell.
They take the following verses as evidence:

"قَالَ ٱلنَّارُ مَثْوَاكُمْ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَآ إِلاَّ مَا شَآءَ ٱللَّهُ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ حَكِيمٌ عَليمٌ "
"He will say: "The Fire be your dwelling-place: you will dwell therein for ever, except as Allah willeth." for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge." Al-An'am, verse: 128

خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا مَا دَامَتِ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتُ وَٱلأَرْضُ إِلاَّ مَا شَآءَ رَبُّكَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ فَعَّالٌ لِّمَا يُرِيدُ
106. Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs:
107. They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: for thy Lord is the (sure) accomplisher of what He planneth." Hud.

They say in these two verses (in th blue color), there isn't what establishes eternity of Hell after using the exception; "except as thy Lord willeth" as He did in His saying about Paradise:

وَأَمَّا ٱلَّذِينَ سُعِدُواْ فَفِي ٱلْجَنَّةِ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا مَا دَامَتِ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتُ وَٱلأَرْضُ إِلاَّ مَا شَآءَ رَبُّكَ عَطَآءً غَيْرَ مَجْذُوذٍ
"108. And those who are blessed shall be in the Garden: They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: a gift without break." Hud.
The exception; "except as thy Lord willeth" was followed by what asserts eternity of Paradise; "a gift without break".
So they say that Paradise is eternal but Hell is not.

Also, they use the verse 23 in Surat An-Naba' as evidence for what they say:
لاَّبِثِينَ فِيهَآ أَحْقَاباً
22. For the transgressors a place of destination:
23. They will dwell therein for ages."
Ahqaba (which is translated as ages) are limited time that will come to an end.

In addition, they use sayings of some companions like Abu hurayrah, Abdullah Ibn Mas'oud and Umar Ibnil-Khattab, which pointed to the same thing.

Some of who said this, Ibn Taymiyya and At-Tabari.

Arabic link:
فناء النار

I think that opinion was of Ibn hazm, a student of Shikh of Islam, Ibn Taymiyah.

It was for Ibn Taymiya and many attacked him and accused him of kufr because of such opinion but as i said it wasn't only him who said so.

But, of course, the majority says that Hell is eternal.

 

[Sahar]

I just thought that the opinion that says Hell is not eternal is quite interesting. :flirt:

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

That is quite an interesting view to it. However part of a hadith here I will quote states the opposite. This is only a part of the hadith as it is very long:


.........I will come back again, and when I see my Lord (again), I will fall down in prostration before Him, and He will leave me (in prostration) as long as He wishes, and then He will say, 'O Muhammad! Raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will then praise my Lord with certain praises which He has taught me, and then I will intercede. Allah will allow me to intercede (for a certain kind of people) and will fix a limit to whom I will admit into Paradise, I will return again, and when I see my Lord, I will fall down (in prostration) and He will leave me (in prostration) as long as He wishes, and then He will say, 'O Muhammad! Raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will then praise my Lord with certain praises which He has taught me, and then I will intercede. Allah will allow me to intercede (for a certain kind of people) and will fix a limit to whom I will admit into Paradise. I will come back and say, 'O my Lord! None remains in Hell (Fire) but those whom Qur'an has imprisoned therein and for whom eternity in Hell (Fire) has become inevitable.' " The Prophet added, "There will come out of Hell (Fire) everyone who says: 'La ilaha illal-lah,' and has in his heart good equal to the weight of a barley grain. Then there will come out of Hell (Fire) everyone who says: ' La ilaha illal-lah,' and has in his heart good equal to the weight of a wheat grain. Then there will come out of Hell (Fire) everyone who says: 'La ilaha illal-lah,' and has in his heart good equal to the weight of an atom (or a smallest ant).(Bukhari)


This hadith states to the effect that hell is eternal, only for those that Allah has confined. Other people who have some type of iman who do not associate partners to Allah, will eventually after a time known only to Allah, be allowed to enter paradise.

 

[Sahar]

"64. Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and prepared for them a Blazing Fire,-
65. To dwell therein for ever: no protector will they find, nor helper." Al-Ahzab

"37. Their wish will be to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out therefrom: their penalty will be one that endures." Al-Ma'ida

"Thus will Allah show them (The fruits of) their deeds as (nothing but) regrets. Nor will there be a way for them out of the Fire." Al-Bakara, verse: 167

So, every group has its evidence. If it's eternal or not, only God knows!

 

[TashaN]

The thread about hell and it being eternal made me think about it from an Islamic POV. Do any of my brothers and sisters know why hell is forever as well as paradise?

I think the key point here is the will of Allah and his promise for Adam to return back to heaven for earth is just a temporary place.

[38] We said: "Get ye down all from here: and if, as is sure, there comes to you guidance from Me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.


[39] "But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be Companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein." (Quran 2:38-39)

This is what i can think of now somehow.

As I said the similar topic in another forum made me think about it, as well we should think about our deaths and the day in which we must stand before Allah to render an account. May Allah save us from kufr, shirk, and nifaq, at the time of death allow us iman in our hearts and kalima on our tongues. And when we are laid in the qabr to protect us from the punishment, and allow us to answer munkar and nakeer. And when we are raised up to give our book of deeds in our right hands. And when we stand before Him to allow us shade under the arsh of Allah, on a day when there will be no shade besides this. May Allah allow us to render our accounts quickly, to be saved from the calamities of that day, to place us among the mumineen, muslimeen, sabireen, and muttaqeen. And may Allah grant us entry in paradise and safety form His anger and His punishments...Ameen!

Ameeeeeen.

 

[worshiper]

i heard from somewhere that the lowest of hell is the one with cold breeze. it is the place of the coldest of cold. can anyone confirm that?

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Interesting. I will have to look that up.