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MAGA Disrupt Maricopa County Board of Supervisors Meeting. Shades of Things to Come.

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Wait a minute. Just because an investigation doesn’t conclude guilt does not mean the investigation was reckless or irresponsible. There was lots of evidence, even if that evidence proved inconclusive.
I recall no evidence being offered for the serious claim.
That is reckless.
It's wrong when Trump does it.
It's wrong when Democrats do it.
But the latter does not excuse Trump's crimes.
Not doing a proper and through investigation would have been irresponsible.

And the investigation did result in multiple convictions. (btw, Paul Manifort is back in the news.)
This does not support the claim that
Trump engaged in collusion with Russia.f

It's dangerous to cry wolf, because not
the real wolf, ie, insurrection, is at the door.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I watched it while it happened, and there's no way to call that an "insurrection" as there was no attempt to overthrow the capital there. It was a protest, and what happened at the Capitol on January 6th was a helluva lot more than just a protest.
Which is a good reason not to brand all the protesters at the Maricopa meeting with a broad brush accusation for things that not all of them espouse. Yet some are doing precisely that.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
I think yours is.
You've a strong desire to believe,
yet you offer no proof of collusion.

I won't hold me breath.
I made no claim of proof of collusion, I claimed to have evidence that needed investigation. But since you refuse to investigate...
1710863973110.jpeg

As you wish.


Key Findings from the Mueller Report
Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s testimony before Congress represents a critical opportunity
for the legal community to help the American people understand what is in his March 2019
Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election. The
following summary presents key findings from the Mueller Report and is intended to help
lawyers and other concerned citizens speak and write about the Special Counsel’s findings in an
informed manner. The summary was prepared by the Presidential Investigation Education
Project, a partnership between the American Constitution Society (ACS) and Citizens for
Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) to promote an informed public evaluation of
the investigations of Special Counsel Mueller and others into Russian interference in our
elections.
The Special Counsel investigation uncovered extensive criminal activity
• The investigation produced 37 indictments; seven guilty pleas or convictions; and
compelling evidence that the president obstructed justice on multiple occasions. Mueller
also uncovered and referred 14 criminal matters to other components of the Department
of Justice.
• Trump associates repeatedly lied to investigators about their contacts with Russians, and
President Trump refused to answer questions about his efforts to impede federal
proceedings and influence the testimony of witnesses.
• A statement signed by over 1,000 former federal prosecutors concluded that if any other
American engaged in the same efforts to impede federal proceedings the way Trump
did, they would likely be indicted for multiple charges of obstruction of justice.
Russia engaged in extensive attacks on the U.S. election system in 2016
• Russian interference in the 2016 election was “sweeping and systemic.”1
• Major attack avenues included a social media “information warfare” campaign that
“favored” candidate Trump2 and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and
release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.3
• Russia also targeted databases in many states related to administering elections gaining
access to information for millions of registered voters.4
The investigation “identified numerous links between the Russian government and
the Trump Campaign” and established that the Trump Campaign “showed interest in
1 SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT S. MUELLER, III, U.S. DEP’T OF JUSTICE, REPORT ON THE INVESTIGATION INTO
RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 ELECTION Vol. I, 1-5 (2019).
2 Id. at Vol. I, 1-4, 14-35.
3 Id. at Vol. I, 1-5, 36-50.
4 Id. at Vol. I, 50-51.
2
WikiLeaks's releases of documents and welcomed their potential to damage
candidate Clinton”
• In 2015 and 2016, Michael Cohen pursued a hotel/residence project in Moscow on behalf
of Trump while he was campaigning for President.5 Then-candidate Trump personally
signed a letter of intent.
• Senior members of the Trump campaign, including Paul Manafort, Donald Trump, Jr.,
and Jared Kushner took a June 9, 2016, meeting with Russian nationals at Trump Tower,
New York, after outreach from an intermediary informed Trump, Jr., that the Russians
had derogatory information on Clinton that was “part of Russia and its government’s
support for Mr. Trump.”6
• Beginning in June 2016, a Trump associate “forecast to senior [Trump] Campaign
officials that WikiLeaks would release information damaging to candidate Clinton.”7 A
section of the Report that remains heavily redacted suggests that Roger Stone was this
associate and that he had significant contacts with the campaign about Wikileaks.8
• The Report described multiple occasions where Trump associates lied to investigators
about Trump associate contacts with Russia. Trump associates George Papadopoulos,
Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, and Michael Cohen all admitted that they made false
statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their contacts. In addition,
Roger Stone faces trial this fall for obstruction of justice, five counts of making false
statements, and one count of witness tampering.
• The Report contains no evidence that any Trump campaign official reported their
contacts with Russia or WikiLeaks to U.S. law enforcement authorities during the
campaign or presidential transition, despite public reports on Russian hacking starting
in June 2016 and candidate Trump’s August 2016 intelligence briefing warning him that
Russia was seeking to interfere in the election.
• The Report raised questions about why Trump associates and then-candidate Trump
repeatedly asserted Trump had no connections to Russia.9
Special Counsel Mueller declined to exonerate President Trump and instead detailed
multiple episodes in which he engaged in obstructive conduct
• The Mueller Report states that if the Special Counsel’s Office felt they could clear the
president of wrongdoing, they would have said so. Instead, the Report explicitly states
that it “does not exonerate” the President10 and explains that the Office of Special
Counsel “accepted” the Department of Justice policy that a sitting President cannot be
indicted.11
• The Mueller report details multiple episodes in which there is evidence that the
President obstructed justice. The pattern of conduct and the manner in which the
5 Id. at Vol. I, 67-80.
6 Id. at Vol. I, 110-20.
7 Id. at Vol. I, 5.
8 Id. at Vol. I, 51-54.
9 Id. at Vol. II, 18-23.
10 Id. at Vol. II, 8.
11 Id.
3
President sought to impede investigations—including through one-on-one meetings
with senior officials—is damning to the President.
• Five episodes of obstructive conduct stand out as being particularly serious:
o In June 2017 President Trump directed White House Counsel Don McGahn to
order the firing of the Special Counsel after press reports that Mueller was
investigating the President for obstruction of justice;12 months later Trump asked
McGahn to falsely refute press accounts reporting this directive and create a false
paper record on this issue – all of which McGahn refused to do.13
o After National Security Advisor Michael Flynn was fired in February 2017 for
lying to FBI investigators about his contacts with Russian Ambassador Kislyak,
Trump cleared his office for a one-on-one meeting with then-FBI Director James
Comey and asked Comey to “let [Flynn] go;” he also asked then-Deputy
National Security Advisor K.T. McFarland to draft an internal memo saying
Trump did not direct Flynn to call Kislyak, which McFarland did not do because
she did not know whether that was true.14
o In July 2017, the President directed former campaign manager Corey
Lewandowski to instruct the Attorney General to limit Mueller’s investigation, a
step the Report asserted “was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny
of the President’s and his campaign’s conduct.”15
o In 2017 and 2018, the President asked the Attorney General to “un-recuse”
himself from the Mueller inquiry, actions from which a “reasonable inference”
could be made that “the President believed that an unrecused Attorney General
would play a protective role and could shield the President from the ongoing
Russia Investigation.”16
o The Report raises questions about whether the President, by and through his
private attorneys, floated the possibility of pardons for the purpose of
influencing the cooperation of Flynn, Manafort, and an unnamed person with
law enforcement.17
Congress needs to continue investigating and assessing elements of the Mueller
Report
• The redactions of the Mueller Report appear to conceal the extent to which the Trump
campaign had advance knowledge of the release of hacked emails by WikiLeaks. For
instance, redactions conceal content of discussions that the Report states occurred
between Trump, Cohen, and Manafort in July 2016 shortly after Wikileaks released
hacked emails;18 the Report further notes, “Trump told Gates that more releases of
12 Mueller Report at Vol. II, 77-90.
13 Id. at Vol. II, 113-18.
14 Id. at Vol. II, 40-44.
15 Id. at Vol. II, 319-25.
16 16 Id. at Vol. II, 319-25.
17 Id. at Vol. II, 332-45.
18 Id. at Vol. I, 53.
4
damaging information would be coming,” but redacts the contextual information
around that statement.19
• A second issue the Report does not examine is the fact that the President was involved
in conduct that was the subject of a case the Special Counsel referred to the Southern
District of New York – which the Report notes “ultimately led to the conviction of
Cohen in the Southern District of New York for campaign-finance offenses related to
payments he said he made at the direction of the President.”20
• The Report also redacts in entirety its discussion of 12 of the 14 matters Mueller referred
to other law enforcement authorities.21
• Further, the Report details non-cooperation with the inquiry by the President, including
refusing requests by the Special Counsel for an interview; providing written responses
that the Office of the Special Counsel considered “incomplete” and “imprecise” and that
involved the President stating on “more than 30 occasions that he ‘does not recall’ or
‘remember’ or ‘have an independent recollection
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
View attachment 89595
As you wish.


Key Findings from the Mueller Report
Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s testimony before Congress represents a critical opportunity
for the legal community to help the American people understand what is in his March 2019
Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election. The
following summary presents key findings from the Mueller Report and is intended to help
lawyers and other concerned citizens speak and write about the Special Counsel’s findings in an
informed manner. The summary was prepared by the Presidential Investigation Education
Project, a partnership between the American Constitution Society (ACS) and Citizens for
Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) to promote an informed public evaluation of
the investigations of Special Counsel Mueller and others into Russian interference in our
elections.
The Special Counsel investigation uncovered extensive criminal activity
• The investigation produced 37 indictments; seven guilty pleas or convictions; and
compelling evidence that the president obstructed justice on multiple occasions. Mueller
also uncovered and referred 14 criminal matters to other components of the Department
of Justice.
• Trump associates repeatedly lied to investigators about their contacts with Russians, and
President Trump refused to answer questions about his efforts to impede federal
proceedings and influence the testimony of witnesses.
• A statement signed by over 1,000 former federal prosecutors concluded that if any other
American engaged in the same efforts to impede federal proceedings the way Trump
did, they would likely be indicted for multiple charges of obstruction of justice.
Russia engaged in extensive attacks on the U.S. election system in 2016
• Russian interference in the 2016 election was “sweeping and systemic.”1
• Major attack avenues included a social media “information warfare” campaign that
“favored” candidate Trump2 and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and
release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.3
• Russia also targeted databases in many states related to administering elections gaining
access to information for millions of registered voters.4
The investigation “identified numerous links between the Russian government and
the Trump Campaign” and established that the Trump Campaign “showed interest in
1 SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT S. MUELLER, III, U.S. DEP’T OF JUSTICE, REPORT ON THE INVESTIGATION INTO
RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 ELECTION Vol. I, 1-5 (2019).
2 Id. at Vol. I, 1-4, 14-35.
3 Id. at Vol. I, 1-5, 36-50.
4 Id. at Vol. I, 50-51.
2
WikiLeaks's releases of documents and welcomed their potential to damage
candidate Clinton”
• In 2015 and 2016, Michael Cohen pursued a hotel/residence project in Moscow on behalf
of Trump while he was campaigning for President.5 Then-candidate Trump personally
signed a letter of intent.
• Senior members of the Trump campaign, including Paul Manafort, Donald Trump, Jr.,
and Jared Kushner took a June 9, 2016, meeting with Russian nationals at Trump Tower,
New York, after outreach from an intermediary informed Trump, Jr., that the Russians
had derogatory information on Clinton that was “part of Russia and its government’s
support for Mr. Trump.”6
• Beginning in June 2016, a Trump associate “forecast to senior [Trump] Campaign
officials that WikiLeaks would release information damaging to candidate Clinton.”7 A
section of the Report that remains heavily redacted suggests that Roger Stone was this
associate and that he had significant contacts with the campaign about Wikileaks.8
• The Report described multiple occasions where Trump associates lied to investigators
about Trump associate contacts with Russia. Trump associates George Papadopoulos,
Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, and Michael Cohen all admitted that they made false
statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their contacts. In addition,
Roger Stone faces trial this fall for obstruction of justice, five counts of making false
statements, and one count of witness tampering.
• The Report contains no evidence that any Trump campaign official reported their
contacts with Russia or WikiLeaks to U.S. law enforcement authorities during the
campaign or presidential transition, despite public reports on Russian hacking starting
in June 2016 and candidate Trump’s August 2016 intelligence briefing warning him that
Russia was seeking to interfere in the election.
• The Report raised questions about why Trump associates and then-candidate Trump
repeatedly asserted Trump had no connections to Russia.9
Special Counsel Mueller declined to exonerate President Trump and instead detailed
multiple episodes in which he engaged in obstructive conduct
• The Mueller Report states that if the Special Counsel’s Office felt they could clear the
president of wrongdoing, they would have said so. Instead, the Report explicitly states
that it “does not exonerate” the President10 and explains that the Office of Special
Counsel “accepted” the Department of Justice policy that a sitting President cannot be
indicted.11
• The Mueller report details multiple episodes in which there is evidence that the
President obstructed justice. The pattern of conduct and the manner in which the
5 Id. at Vol. I, 67-80.
6 Id. at Vol. I, 110-20.
7 Id. at Vol. I, 5.
8 Id. at Vol. I, 51-54.
9 Id. at Vol. II, 18-23.
10 Id. at Vol. II, 8.
11 Id.
3
President sought to impede investigations—including through one-on-one meetings
with senior officials—is damning to the President.
• Five episodes of obstructive conduct stand out as being particularly serious:
o In June 2017 President Trump directed White House Counsel Don McGahn to
order the firing of the Special Counsel after press reports that Mueller was
investigating the President for obstruction of justice;12 months later Trump asked
McGahn to falsely refute press accounts reporting this directive and create a false
paper record on this issue – all of which McGahn refused to do.13
o After National Security Advisor Michael Flynn was fired in February 2017 for
lying to FBI investigators about his contacts with Russian Ambassador Kislyak,
Trump cleared his office for a one-on-one meeting with then-FBI Director James
Comey and asked Comey to “let [Flynn] go;” he also asked then-Deputy
National Security Advisor K.T. McFarland to draft an internal memo saying
Trump did not direct Flynn to call Kislyak, which McFarland did not do because
she did not know whether that was true.14
o In July 2017, the President directed former campaign manager Corey
Lewandowski to instruct the Attorney General to limit Mueller’s investigation, a
step the Report asserted “was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny
of the President’s and his campaign’s conduct.”15
o In 2017 and 2018, the President asked the Attorney General to “un-recuse”
himself from the Mueller inquiry, actions from which a “reasonable inference”
could be made that “the President believed that an unrecused Attorney General
would play a protective role and could shield the President from the ongoing
Russia Investigation.”16
o The Report raises questions about whether the President, by and through his
private attorneys, floated the possibility of pardons for the purpose of
influencing the cooperation of Flynn, Manafort, and an unnamed person with
law enforcement.17
Congress needs to continue investigating and assessing elements of the Mueller
Report
• The redactions of the Mueller Report appear to conceal the extent to which the Trump
campaign had advance knowledge of the release of hacked emails by WikiLeaks. For
instance, redactions conceal content of discussions that the Report states occurred
between Trump, Cohen, and Manafort in July 2016 shortly after Wikileaks released
hacked emails;18 the Report further notes, “Trump told Gates that more releases of
12 Mueller Report at Vol. II, 77-90.
13 Id. at Vol. II, 113-18.
14 Id. at Vol. II, 40-44.
15 Id. at Vol. II, 319-25.
16 16 Id. at Vol. II, 319-25.
17 Id. at Vol. II, 332-45.
18 Id. at Vol. I, 53.
4
damaging information would be coming,” but redacts the contextual information
around that statement.19
• A second issue the Report does not examine is the fact that the President was involved
in conduct that was the subject of a case the Special Counsel referred to the Southern
District of New York – which the Report notes “ultimately led to the conviction of
Cohen in the Southern District of New York for campaign-finance offenses related to
payments he said he made at the direction of the President.”20
• The Report also redacts in entirety its discussion of 12 of the 14 matters Mueller referred
to other law enforcement authorities.21
• Further, the Report details non-cooperation with the inquiry by the President, including
refusing requests by the Special Counsel for an interview; providing written responses
that the Office of the Special Counsel considered “incomplete” and “imprecise” and that
involved the President stating on “more than 30 occasions that he ‘does not recall’ or
‘remember’ or ‘have an independent recollection
Just perusing the initial portions of that lengthy text,
I see legitimate claims against "associates", but not
Trump. Searching text for "collusion", it didn't turn up.
If you've actually read what you quoted, then perhaps
you can narrow down the quote to the part that
supports the claim that Trump colluded with Russia.

Note also that you've ignored my criticism of this charge
having been made long before that report came out.
And that no proof accompanied it.
Again, Democrats are doing a dis-service to justice
by giving Magas this ammunition, ie, making
unsupported claims that they can use to tarnish
the real crime, ie, insurrection.

When something is fun to believe, there's always
temptation to leap to it before verifying it.
Now that is serving Trump's propaganda machine.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
I see legitimate claims against "associates"
Which is a legimate reason for investigation.

Searching text for "collusion"
I am not going to play "say the magic word".
charge having been made long before that report came out.
And lots of this information was available at the time.
Now that is serving Trump's propaganda machine.
Revisionist history serves Trump's propaganda machine.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
I made no claim of proof of collusion, I claimed to have evidence that needed investigation. But since you refuse to investigate...
View attachment 89595
As you wish.


Key Findings from the Mueller Report
Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s testimony before Congress represents a critical opportunity
for the legal community to help the American people understand what is in his March 2019
Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election. The
following summary presents key findings from the Mueller Report and is intended to help
lawyers and other concerned citizens speak and write about the Special Counsel’s findings in an
informed manner. The summary was prepared by the Presidential Investigation Education
Project, a partnership between the American Constitution Society (ACS) and Citizens for
Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) to promote an informed public evaluation of
the investigations of Special Counsel Mueller and others into Russian interference in our
elections.
The Special Counsel investigation uncovered extensive criminal activity
• The investigation produced 37 indictments; seven guilty pleas or convictions; and
compelling evidence that the president obstructed justice on multiple occasions. Mueller
also uncovered and referred 14 criminal matters to other components of the Department
of Justice.
• Trump associates repeatedly lied to investigators about their contacts with Russians, and
President Trump refused to answer questions about his efforts to impede federal
proceedings and influence the testimony of witnesses.
• A statement signed by over 1,000 former federal prosecutors concluded that if any other
American engaged in the same efforts to impede federal proceedings the way Trump
did, they would likely be indicted for multiple charges of obstruction of justice.
Russia engaged in extensive attacks on the U.S. election system in 2016
• Russian interference in the 2016 election was “sweeping and systemic.”1
• Major attack avenues included a social media “information warfare” campaign that
“favored” candidate Trump2 and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and
release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.3
• Russia also targeted databases in many states related to administering elections gaining
access to information for millions of registered voters.4
The investigation “identified numerous links between the Russian government and
the Trump Campaign” and established that the Trump Campaign “showed interest in
1 SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT S. MUELLER, III, U.S. DEP’T OF JUSTICE, REPORT ON THE INVESTIGATION INTO
RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 ELECTION Vol. I, 1-5 (2019).
2 Id. at Vol. I, 1-4, 14-35.
3 Id. at Vol. I, 1-5, 36-50.
4 Id. at Vol. I, 50-51.
2
WikiLeaks's releases of documents and welcomed their potential to damage
candidate Clinton”
• In 2015 and 2016, Michael Cohen pursued a hotel/residence project in Moscow on behalf
of Trump while he was campaigning for President.5 Then-candidate Trump personally
signed a letter of intent.
• Senior members of the Trump campaign, including Paul Manafort, Donald Trump, Jr.,
and Jared Kushner took a June 9, 2016, meeting with Russian nationals at Trump Tower,
New York, after outreach from an intermediary informed Trump, Jr., that the Russians
had derogatory information on Clinton that was “part of Russia and its government’s
support for Mr. Trump.”6
• Beginning in June 2016, a Trump associate “forecast to senior [Trump] Campaign
officials that WikiLeaks would release information damaging to candidate Clinton.”7 A
section of the Report that remains heavily redacted suggests that Roger Stone was this
associate and that he had significant contacts with the campaign about Wikileaks.8
• The Report described multiple occasions where Trump associates lied to investigators
about Trump associate contacts with Russia. Trump associates George Papadopoulos,
Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, and Michael Cohen all admitted that they made false
statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their contacts. In addition,
Roger Stone faces trial this fall for obstruction of justice, five counts of making false
statements, and one count of witness tampering.
• The Report contains no evidence that any Trump campaign official reported their
contacts with Russia or WikiLeaks to U.S. law enforcement authorities during the
campaign or presidential transition, despite public reports on Russian hacking starting
in June 2016 and candidate Trump’s August 2016 intelligence briefing warning him that
Russia was seeking to interfere in the election.
• The Report raised questions about why Trump associates and then-candidate Trump
repeatedly asserted Trump had no connections to Russia.9
Special Counsel Mueller declined to exonerate President Trump and instead detailed
multiple episodes in which he engaged in obstructive conduct
• The Mueller Report states that if the Special Counsel’s Office felt they could clear the
president of wrongdoing, they would have said so. Instead, the Report explicitly states
that it “does not exonerate” the President10 and explains that the Office of Special
Counsel “accepted” the Department of Justice policy that a sitting President cannot be
indicted.11
• The Mueller report details multiple episodes in which there is evidence that the
President obstructed justice. The pattern of conduct and the manner in which the
5 Id. at Vol. I, 67-80.
6 Id. at Vol. I, 110-20.
7 Id. at Vol. I, 5.
8 Id. at Vol. I, 51-54.
9 Id. at Vol. II, 18-23.
10 Id. at Vol. II, 8.
11 Id.
3
President sought to impede investigations—including through one-on-one meetings
with senior officials—is damning to the President.
• Five episodes of obstructive conduct stand out as being particularly serious:
o In June 2017 President Trump directed White House Counsel Don McGahn to
order the firing of the Special Counsel after press reports that Mueller was
investigating the President for obstruction of justice;12 months later Trump asked
McGahn to falsely refute press accounts reporting this directive and create a false
paper record on this issue – all of which McGahn refused to do.13
o After National Security Advisor Michael Flynn was fired in February 2017 for
lying to FBI investigators about his contacts with Russian Ambassador Kislyak,
Trump cleared his office for a one-on-one meeting with then-FBI Director James
Comey and asked Comey to “let [Flynn] go;” he also asked then-Deputy
National Security Advisor K.T. McFarland to draft an internal memo saying
Trump did not direct Flynn to call Kislyak, which McFarland did not do because
she did not know whether that was true.14
o In July 2017, the President directed former campaign manager Corey
Lewandowski to instruct the Attorney General to limit Mueller’s investigation, a
step the Report asserted “was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny
of the President’s and his campaign’s conduct.”15
o In 2017 and 2018, the President asked the Attorney General to “un-recuse”
himself from the Mueller inquiry, actions from which a “reasonable inference”
could be made that “the President believed that an unrecused Attorney General
would play a protective role and could shield the President from the ongoing
Russia Investigation.”16
o The Report raises questions about whether the President, by and through his
private attorneys, floated the possibility of pardons for the purpose of
influencing the cooperation of Flynn, Manafort, and an unnamed person with
law enforcement.17
Congress needs to continue investigating and assessing elements of the Mueller
Report
• The redactions of the Mueller Report appear to conceal the extent to which the Trump
campaign had advance knowledge of the release of hacked emails by WikiLeaks. For
instance, redactions conceal content of discussions that the Report states occurred
between Trump, Cohen, and Manafort in July 2016 shortly after Wikileaks released
hacked emails;18 the Report further notes, “Trump told Gates that more releases of
12 Mueller Report at Vol. II, 77-90.
13 Id. at Vol. II, 113-18.
14 Id. at Vol. II, 40-44.
15 Id. at Vol. II, 319-25.
16 16 Id. at Vol. II, 319-25.
17 Id. at Vol. II, 332-45.
18 Id. at Vol. I, 53.
4
damaging information would be coming,” but redacts the contextual information
around that statement.19
• A second issue the Report does not examine is the fact that the President was involved
in conduct that was the subject of a case the Special Counsel referred to the Southern
District of New York – which the Report notes “ultimately led to the conviction of
Cohen in the Southern District of New York for campaign-finance offenses related to
payments he said he made at the direction of the President.”20
• The Report also redacts in entirety its discussion of 12 of the 14 matters Mueller referred
to other law enforcement authorities.21
• Further, the Report details non-cooperation with the inquiry by the President, including
refusing requests by the Special Counsel for an interview; providing written responses
that the Office of the Special Counsel considered “incomplete” and “imprecise” and that
involved the President stating on “more than 30 occasions that he ‘does not recall’ or
‘remember’ or ‘have an independent recollection
tl;dr: Multiple members of the Trump campaign did collude with the Russians - but no evidence of Trump himself.
Trump tried to obstruct the investigation - but no evidence of Trump colluding with the Russians.

So, the statement that Trump wasn't caught in collusion is correct.
The statement that there was no collusion or no wrongdoing is not.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Which is a legimate reason for investigation.
Is investigation the same as proof?
I am not going to play "say the magic word".
How about playing "I have proof for my claim"?
And lots of this information was available at the time.
What proof is available now?
Revisionist history serves Trump's propaganda machine.
The left's reckless claims serve him well too.
Stop doing that.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
tl;dr: Multiple members of the Trump campaign did collude with the Russians - but no evidence of Trump himself.
Trump tried to obstruct the investigation - but no evidence of Trump colluding with the Russians.

So, the statement that Trump wasn't caught in collusion is correct.
The statement that there was no collusion or no wrongdoing is not.
Just to be sure....
Take note of the fact that I never claimed
Trump didn't collude. Only that such a
claim should have proof / evidence.

Trump has now done worse than collusion.
Posters who deflect from insurrection to
collusion are only strengthening Trump's
appeal among the faithful.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Perhaps your cartoon is offered because
you think that I'm criticizing you personally
for making the claims of collusion. My
criticism is more general.
But now that the subject is broached, you
do seem to be defending the charge of
Trump colluding with Russia from the
beginning.
It is also bogus to claim that clouds are made of cotton candy. But since no one here has made that claim it doesn't seem relevant to the discussion.
Are you having a crisis of some kind?
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
you do seem to be
Seem to be? Is that what you got? You ignore what I am saying and substitute whatever you want to make it easier to make your point.
1710866020739.png


I am not going to do that. You actually said "I recall no evidence being offered for the serious claim." You didn't just "seem to be saying that" you actually said it.

And I thought it would be helpful to refresh your memory. Now I am done.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
There is plenty of proof the Trump campaign colluded with Russia. Trump's involvement was hiring the corrupted individuals.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Which is a good reason not to brand all the protesters at the Maricopa meeting with a broad brush accusation for things that not all of them espouse. Yet some are doing precisely that.

Not me, says I.

You're basically operating out of a disingenuous stance using any trick you can to lessen the severity of what happened on January 6th and who was largely responsible for it when he told his followers to "fight like hell" just before his MAGA followers left to assault the Capitol. What happened in Tennessee simply doesn't get close to that event, so using a "false equivalency" only speaks to the low you are so willing to stoop to in defense of the Donald.
 
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