So let's go back to your claim that nobody contradicted the claims made by the Gospel writers.
The people who knew Him best were unimpressed, to say the least.
Tom
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Magic isn't real, "supernatural" isn't a good term for religion
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
So let's go back to your claim that nobody contradicted the claims made by the Gospel writers.
The people who knew Him best were unimpressed, to say the least.
Tom
Shuttlecraft
.Navigator
So what? When he breezed into Nazareth and said "The spirit of God is upon me" it was only human nature that they'd go ballistic and yell "Huh, he's just that kid from the woodwork shop, who does he think he is?"
In a sense, they were the Twitter trolls and bullies of their day.
A modern example is when Olympic diver Tom Daley started making a name for himself here in Plymouth a few years ago, some of his schoolmates began mercilessly bullying him, so his parents transferred him to another school where they looked up to him with respect..
So, let's go back to your claim that nobody contradicted the Gospels.
Now you are claiming that the people who knew Jesus best were bullies. God Himself, 100% sinfree, lived among them and they despised Him.
What I am claiming is that they knew Him better than you possibly could. And that you are wrong when you say nobody contradicted the Gospels.
Feel free to respond to what I post and not some ancient straw man.
Tom
Shuttlecraft
.Navigator
Hold it right there mate, Jesus WASN'T God! All they saw was a kid from the woodwork shop who'd seemingly got too big for his boots.
Later, when his fame spread, many of them probably changed their tune, but there were ALWAYS boneheads like the priests and their lackeys right to the end.
The gospels were simply a straightforward historical account of his life and like I said, nobody ever came forward to say "Hey they ain't true!"..
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
That's not debate, it's just more conspiracy theories..
No it is not. It is serious scholars, doing serious research.
I understand how confronting the information i provided is. But you should not reject it because it goes against your beliefs.
Beliefs should be informed by fact, not the other way around.
OK.
You and I and FearGod and Aupramauv finally have something in common. We all agree that Jesus WASN'T God.
You're the only one who describes themself as a Christian.
What's with that?
The gospels were simply a straightforward historical account of his life and like I said, nobody ever came forward to say "Hey they ain't true!"..
Feel free to explain to the internet why the Gospels say that the people living at the time said " Hey, that ain't true!", but you believe both that It does and doesn't say so.
Tom
Magic isn't real, "supernatural" isn't a good term for religion
I have terminology problems when communicating with people all the time. Terms denote differently to individuals. That's a problem with English as many terms were created to discuss traditional western subjects and now with the greater introduction of eastern thinking and concepts people are often still trying to use the old terms.
But we got to live with it. The only answer seems that we need to explain ourselves with sentences and not single words. But this would make replying on RF overly tedious sometimes. It's a problem.
I have terminology problems when communicating with people all the time. Terms denote differently to individuals. That's a problem with English as many terms were created to discuss traditional western subjects and now with the greater introduction of eastern thinking and concepts people are often still trying to use the old terms.
But we got to live with it. The only answer seems that we need to explain ourselves with sentences and not single words. But this would make replying on RF overly tedious sometimes. It's a problem.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
I was a teenager and lived through the 1960's and could easily sit down today 50 years later and write a book called "Pop music of the Sizzling 60's".
But if I made bits of it up, people would quickly say "HEY, that's not true, we lived through the 60's too, and you're making things up!"
But they could never say that because I'd stick only to TRUE facts throughout the book!
Likewise, when the gospels were written after Jesus's death, NOBODY, not a single person, ever came forward to say "Hey that's not true, I was there!"
That's why we know can take the gospels as the gospel truth..
You keep saying this as if it is true! It isn't!
The NT is a "collection of writings, and they picked and chose which ones they wanted to keep, and banned the rest. Remember the Nicene Council? The other sides?
Arianism - no divinity of Jesus, etc?
Paul of Samosata? Eusebius of Nicomedia? Arius?
After this they put down opposition by murder.
How about those people who claimed to be the Messiah after Jesus was dead? They and their followers obviously didn't believe the gospels?
The Bible itself tells us of people that didn't believe Jesus was anything special.
Obviously the Priests didn't!
And people that grew up with him -
Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
Mat 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Mat 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
Mar 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
Even the converts -
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
So - we obviously have people saying they don't believe the Messiah/Deity/miracle stuff, from the very beginning of the religion.
*
Shuttlecraft
.Navigator
I don't have "beliefs" mate, I simply have an ammo crate full of Bible verses to back myself up and deliver them like carefully-controlled sniper fire, and if you disagree with them take it up with Jesus when you meet him..
As a wise philosopher once said-
"This is this! THIS IS THIS!"
Shuttlecraft
.Navigator
A Christian is simply a CHUM of Jesus, beats me why some people don't seem to like him..
"You're my friends if you follow me. I don't call you servants, but I call you friends"- (John 15:15)
As for the gospels, I dunno what you're getting at.
I mean, if somebody sat down today and wrote a book about Elvis and filled it with all sorts of fibs and made up stuff, people who knew him would soon come forward and say "Hey that's rubbish!" and there'd be a public outcry and it'd be thoroughly discredited and removed from the shelves, right Elv?
"Uh-huh"
Regarding the gospels, there was NO public outcry or anything, NOBODY ever came forward to say "They're a load of tosh!"..
If ever there were a self-contradicting statement...
Shuttlecraft
.Navigator
Well I'd like to believe that the women in the bookshop, the grocers, the petshop and the bank fancy me, but until they give me a smile and flutter their eyelashes at me, I'm inclined to believe they don't (sniffle).
PS- as a man of the world yourself, can you give me some chatup lines to try out on them?
PS- as a man of the world yourself, can you give me some chatup lines to try out on them?
Try hi I am shuttlecraft, (reach out for a hand shake) ACandD ask there name
A Wiccan once told me that magic was prayer with props.
Like Rosary Beads?
You pray to a God to act on your behalf... The props help you focus.
AsheCorvus
New Member
Magic is an integral part of many forms of paganism and pagan based/influence religions eg. Wicca, Christianity, Neo-Shamanism, etc.
No... During an era where most people could not read or write you expect some historical record of denial?
I was a teenager and lived through the 1960's
and could easily sit down today 50 years later and write a book called "Pop music of the Sizzling 60's".
But if I made bits of it up, people would quickly say "HEY, that's not true, we lived through the 60's too, and you're making things up!"
But they could never say that because I'd stick only to TRUE facts throughout the book!
Likewise, when the gospels were written after Jesus's death, NOBODY, not a single person, ever came forward to say "Hey that's not true, I was there!"
That's why we know can take the gospels as the gospel truth..
No... During an era where most people could not read or write you expect some historical record of denial?
AsheCorvus
New Member
Yes and no, Magic can be used other than for prayer but that is what is mainly done in Wicca.