Magick - White, black or neither

[thorysus]

I think the term white and black magic was used to seperate the diferent type of practioners among the highly closed minded and ignorant public of THAT era. I think THAT era has long passed and we are entering into a whole NEW era, and have been for several years! I think if we keep holding on to those lables we stay in the sterotype of that era and it hurts the craft enormously. I say that because then the craft can not only grow, it gets locked into a doctrine type setting like tradional religions and isnt that a major appeal to our religion? I dont believe that limiting ourselves to sterotypes will benifit any one and only cause harm in the long run and short run! After all if we stay in the stero types of past eras we can never get out of those eras.

Besides all magic has its consequences. It might be "good" for you but "bad" to another (ex. do a spell to win the lotto, you do great!! The peope who else were gonna win it may be povery struckin (and i dont mean without cable ) and lose thier child to starvation, or a desease-drugs-gangs etc from such a lifestyle. In that case is it white or black magic if it benifits you and yours but decimates a great many others?

I think the proper way to educate john q public is not through labels that can be used against of commuity as a whole, but to be able to spot the non-good people as individuals! Thats a human thing, theres always bad seeds, but should not be used to sterotype the masses for its unfair to judge the many by a few.

 

[Buttons*]

If i knew more about Wicca i'd prolly have something intelligent to say about it... alas i do not! So black magick is only such because of the way it effects others? or am I just majorly confuzed?

 

[Nehustan]

I think I must ask which of the two schools you refer to?

Do you refer to Magick as coined by Crowley following on from Regardie, MacGregor-Mathers, Levi etc., or do you refer to Wicca, which can certainly be considered as religion with a triplicity of a Godess at its core. Of course there is crossover.

I think I will however take you to mean The Western Tradition, and thus must state that Magick as you point out is not strictly 'white or black'. It can adhere to three main paths, most notably The Black Brothehood of the Left, and the White Brotherhood of the Right, and may I venture that the middle is suitable to be called Green. I often like to amuse myself with the statement 'Two out of Three ain't bad', which would be my qabbalistic epitaph if ever I were to have one.

In Islam it is taught that Magick was taught by two angels, the Quran states...

Bismillah Ar Rahman Ar Raheem

'They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon: the blasphemers Were, not Solomon, but the evil ones, teaching men Magic, and such things as came down at babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (Such things) without saying: "We are only for trial; so do not blaspheme." They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's permission. And they learned what harmed them, not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if they but knew!'

Surah Baqarah (The cow) 2:102

It is said that from these two angels one taught the art of the left the other of the right. I am personally of the opinion that what is called the art may turn out to be science, certainly what I have called the Green Path would be in the progression of such knowledge into Science, Alchemy into Chemistry to strike an analogy. There is recounted a story in the Quran of a man whom Moses meets called Al-Kadr a mystical character recounted of in Surah 18.

"So they found one of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught knowledge from Our own Presence. Moses said to him: "May I follow thee, on the footing that thou teach me something of the (Higher) Truth which thou hast been taught?" (The other) said: "Verily thou wilt not be able to have patience with me! And how canst thou have patience about things about which thy understanding is not complete?" Moses said: "Thou wilt find me, if Allah so will, (truly) patient: nor shall I disobey thee in aught." The other said: "If then thou wouldst follow me, ask me no questions about anything until I myself speak to thee concerning it." Surah 18:65-70

I have often thought that surely this knowledge must be the very knowledge of nature that we today consider the scientific paradigm. It is no coincedence that the arabic word Kadr/Khidr carries the connatation of the colour green, with the Green Man being considered by some as the symbol of the attribute of Prophethood that is immortal; the inner meaning of Khidr is the essential body that one prepares for Allah

http://www.ibiblio.org/cybersufis/html/pages/glossary.htm

When one considers the deeper semiotics of the mystical traditions one is often confronted with parallels with what people now call science. The challenge is to elevate oneself from the superstitions and ignorance of primitive times toward a knowledge that delivers illumination and possesses a constructive end.

 

[Mike182]

neither, magic just is

in the same way, fire can be good and bad, ie it can give us heat, and people have been burnt to death - yet you would not say it is black fire or white fire, its just fire

C_P

 

[Dark_Waltz]

Neither,
Magic is not good or bad it is the person casting it that is in a light or dark frame of mind

 

[kreeden]

Black fire is cool ....

I agree about the label thing being very outdated . But if we do use labels , lets that a close look at what we are talking about . Darkness isn't a thing on it's own . It is a lack of Light . { I personally don't care for the term " black " as used in this way } .

Just as Darkness is the lack of Light , so called " Dark Magic " lacks the compasion and consideration that so called " Light Magic " has . The " Magic " is the same , only the force behind it differs ... the will of the caster . The flame really doesn't care what colour the candle is .

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I only use the labels of "white" and "black" when I am trying to explain stuff to someone who is new or just interested. But I point out that just because something might be dark doesn't make it automatically bad, just as something being light doesn't automatically make it good.

 

[Pardus]

I hate this question, but it needs a simple answer.

Is a hammer good or bad?

It can build a house or take a life.

 

[Dark_Waltz]

Do yo know idiot me was actually writing an answer then realised you were trying to prove a point

 

[Mike182]

Do yo know idiot me was actually writing an answer then realised you were trying to prove a point

believable - i did the same

 

[Fluffy]

I suppose that magick could be grouped into "black" and "white" categories but there is unlikely to be much agreement over what each category should constitute and, at the end of the day, it is a pretty artifical affectation which might be useful to introduce beginners to the subject (in the same way as good and bad is used in ethics) but an advanced user who stays hung up on these terms is going to fail to come to their own conclusions about magick and inevitably screw up.

 

[Granny Beth]

I hate this question, but it needs a simple answer.

Is a hammer good or bad?

It can build a house or take a life.

I agree. Magic is neutral, it's just energy. It's what you do with it that counts. I guess a lot of people think in terms of polarity rather than balance.

 

[Darkdale]

I agree. Magic is neutral, it's just energy. It's what you do with it that counts. I guess a lot of people think in terms of polarity rather than balance.

That comes from Christianity. The Good v. Evil syndrome. I look at it the same way... neutral. Our intent can either be helpful or hurtful, compassionate or mean-spirited... but that's the case with everything we do.

 

[Granny Beth]

That comes from Christianity. The Good v. Evil syndrome. I look at it the same way... neutral. Our intent can either be helpful or hurtful, compassionate or mean-spirited... but that's the case with everything we do.

Yes it comes from Christianity but it goes deeper, I think. I know many people who aren't Christian but can't help that kind of " X versus Y" mentality. I think it comes from living in a traditionally "Christian" society. It's the way you are raised to think, however subconsciously.

 

[Darkdale]

Yes it comes from Christianity but it goes deeper, I think. I know many people who aren't Christian but can't help that kind of " X versus Y" mentality. I think it comes from living in a traditionally "Christian" society. It's the way you are raised to think, however subconsciously.

Yes. I comes from the Christian Worldview which has dominated Western Civilization for the last 500 years, even in further back but in a different way.

 

[michel]

I agree. Magic is neutral, it's just energy. It's what you do with it that counts. I guess a lot of people think in terms of polarity rather than balance.

There's no such thing as magic; magic is only something people don't understand. And yes, there is just plain old magic, with no colour; the intent of the 'witch' is what counts.

But I don't like the name witch or magic, because they have derogatory connotations; mind you, I wouldn't know what else to suggest.

 

[kreeden]

I guess a lot of people think in terms of polarity rather than balance.

Interesting way to put it . And yea , I think that you have a very good point there .

 

[Plaidcat]

i ask from a point of little knowledge, could a prayer to influence someone or something be considered a form of witchcraft? or wiccan if tools are used?

 

[Mike182]

i ask from a point of little knowledge, could a prayer to influence someone or something be considered a form of witchcraft? or wiccan if tools are used?

on one hand, it could be conciderd as witchcraft, but on the other hand, it could not be

it comes down to your personal oppinion, you could prey for fortune to come your way, like, prey for a way out of a financial situation, or prey to find the love you've been searching for. there is nothing wrong with this, regardless of what you class it as

i would say i have a problem with preying via greed, like, i prey to win the lottery so that i can liv ein luxury for the rest of my life and not need to care about anyone else - but again, this is regardless of how you classify it

 

[Pardus]

Well i'll openly admit i purposefuly study the nastier stuff, animal sacrifices, etc, because if you don't understand the entire picture you are just blind.