Make America Great Again!

[Valjean]

Donald Trump wants to "Make America great again!" This assumes that America was once great, but has lost its greatness; that America has deteriorated.

I hear similar things from the other presidential hopefuls.

What I'm wondering is:
When was this period of greatness that we need to recreate?
What economic, domestic and foreign policies were in place during this period of greatness?
How did it deteriorate?
And what features constitute greatness, anyway?

Discuss.

 

[Laika]

When was this period of greatness that we need to recreate?

If I had to guess, it's probably 1991 to 2001 (i.e. from the dissolution of the USSR and the end of the Cold War up to 9/11 and the War on Terror). Through the lense of a certian amount of nostalga, America was unquestionably the worlds only "superpower" and went virtually unchallanged for that time whilst undergoing rapid technological change. As Francis Fukuyama put it, it was thought of as "the end of history" as liberal economic and political ideas had a global acceptence, an arguaubly giving the US considerable "moral" authority in world affairs.

now its all a bit more "uncertian" with 9/11, the war in Iraq, the human rights abuses of Gunatanamo Bay, ISIL, the financial crisis of 2008, the great recession and the decline of the US middle class and the crisis of middle class oppurtunity and the "american dream". To some extent this also feeds off a sense of dissapointment the "hope and change" candidacy of Obama back in 2008. This isn't exactly "my" view but more of an "impression" of what it could be. its considerably more complex, but people tend to have "golden age" myths because the past offers a much greater level of certianity than the future. ironically of course, if you want to "make america great again", it won't be by turning the clock back but by pro-actively responding to on-going and developing challanges as a solid foundation for futher development and advancement.

however, a considerable amount of far-right rhetoric engages in sginificant re-writing of American history; e.g. the United States was founded as a Christian Nation, that the authors of the declaration of independence or the US constitution were somehow "gifted" or "unique", or the Confederacy was fighting for States Rights, that the United States had a "manifest destiny" to stretch from coast to coast as the natural frontiers, fighting for freedom and democracy against the Nazis and Japanese and then the godless Commies, etc.There are alot of myths to appeal to. So Trumps slogan maybe should be more like Steven Colberts' "America Again: Re-Becoming the Greatness we never weren't".

 

[Sunstone]

"Great"? Well, that certainly opens a can of worms.

When people have called this country "great" in the more or less recent past (say, 50 years ago), I think they were expressing a number of things, including:

1) a feeling that things were going well for them, or would soon be,

2) combined with a pride in American accomplishments, such as landing men on the moon,

3) and perhaps a pride in American world leadership, along with

4) a sense that social, economic, and political progress was likely.

Most or all of those things don't seem to apply that much anymore. Things are not going well for most people. Lots of folks have lost hope they will ever be much better off than they are now. American accomplishments seem more on the order of smart bombs than breathtaking advances in other areas of the sciences and technologies. The country seems poised to lose it's position of world leader at some point perhaps not too far in the future to China. And we seem in many ways to be regressing socially, economically, and politically.

I believe the deterioration was primarily caused by poor leadership over the past 30 or 40 years. Notions like privatization, trickle down economics, radically free markets, and absolute free trade are recipes for eventual decline. Although such notions appeal to the child within all of us who wants a simple world that is easy to make sense of, it is lethal to apply them, as we have done over the past 30 to 40 years.

To me, greatness would be a society of genuine citizens, rather than mere consumers, active in their own governance, and creating a nation that was liberal in its rights, humane in its values, ecologically sustainable in its economy, and just and fair in its laws and their application. Those are my demands, and I consider them modest compared to my ideals.

 

[Laika]

If I had to guess, it's probably 1991 to 2001 (i.e. from the dissolution of the USSR and the end of the Cold War up to 9/11 and the War on Terror). Through the lense of a certian amount of nostalga, America was unquestionably the worlds only "superpower" and went virtually unchallanged for that time whilst undergoing rapid technological change. As Francis Fukuyama put it, it was thought of as "the end of history" as liberal economic and political ideas had a global acceptence, an arguaubly giving the US considerable "moral" authority in world affairs.

now its all a bit more "uncertian" with 9/11, the war in Iraq, the human rights abuses of Gunatanamo Bay, ISIL, the financial crisis of 2008, the great recession and the decline of the US middle class and the crisis of middle class oppurtunity and the "american dream". To some extent this also feeds off a sense of dissapointment the "hope and change" candidacy of Obama back in 2008. This isn't exactly "my" view but more of an "impression" of what it could be. its considerably more complex, but people tend to have "golden age" myths because the past offers a much greater level of certianity than the future. ironically of course, if you want to "make america great again", it won't be by turning the clock back but by pro-actively responding to on-going and developing challanges as a solid foundation for futher development and advancement.

however, a considerable amount of far-right rhetoric engages in sginificant re-writing of American history; e.g. the United States was founded as a Christian Nation, that the authors of the declaration of independence or the US constitution were somehow "gifted" or "unique", or the Confederacy was fighting for States Rights, that the United States had a "manifest destiny" to stretch from coast to coast as the natural frontiers, fighting for freedom and democracy against the Nazis and Japanese and then the godless Commies, etc.There are alot of myths to appeal to. So Trumps slogan maybe should be more like Steven Colberts' "America Again: Re-Becoming the Greatness we never weren't".

Being fair, I should add though, that the "left" also romanticises US history as well. e.g. when people ask "what if Kennedy hadn't been assasinated?" they will often come up with a significantly "better" version of events than actually occured because of the national shame of the Vietnam war, and then Watergate and the belief that America should be destined for greater things. The 60's often seem to get a fair amount of romanticising as a "revolutionary" period (when it was niether an actual revolution, nor are the latter anywhere near romantic). So the measure of "greatness" is often in the eye of the beholder and if often smoothes over the often very complex, difficult and sometimes disturbing conflicting tendencies in real life.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

I suppose periods of economic boom, low unemployment and good wages are "great" periods.

I think people have to admit that if we were in an economic boom and people had more money in their pockets, Bernie Sanders (and possibly Trump) wouldn't even be doing half as well.

 

[Revoltingest]

Donald Trump wants to "Make America great again!" This assumes that America was once great, but has lost its greatness; that America has deteriorated.

I hear similar things from the other presidential hopefuls.

What I'm wondering is:
When was this period of greatness that we need to recreate?

We can't recreate many of them again.
Our prior great periods were eras of great technological advantages over the rest of the world, eg.....
- 1st half of 19th century, when New England was the hi-tech of the world. (We finally surpassed old England.)
- 1945-60, when we were the country not devastated by war.
- turn of the 19th-20th century, when we had rampant unregulated capitalism with ambitious empire builders, eg, Rockefeller, Carmegie.

What economic, domestic and foreign policies were in place during this period of greatness?
How did it deteriorate?
And what features constitute greatness, anyway?
Discuss.

Greatness is complicated.
The good ole days had lots'o problems, eg, Jim Crow, environmental degredation, civil liberty shortcomings.
I loathe the "make Americastan great again" slogan.
I'd prefer...."make Americastan better than it is".
And even that sounds stupid.

 

[Augustus]

When was this period of greatness that we need to recreate?

The past

What economic, domestic and foreign policies were in place during this period of greatness?

Better ones

How did it deteriorate?

Became the present

And what features constitute greatness, anyway?

Being in the past and 'our guy' being in charge

 

[BSM1]

If I had to guess, it's probably 1991 to 2001 (i.e. from the dissolution of the USSR and the end of the Cold War up to 9/11 and the War on Terror). Through the lense of a certian amount of nostalga, America was unquestionably the worlds only "superpower" and went virtually unchallanged for that time whilst undergoing rapid technological change. As Francis Fukuyama put it, it was thought of as "the end of history" as liberal economic and political ideas had a global acceptence, an arguaubly giving the US considerable "moral" authority in world affairs.

now its all a bit more "uncertian" with 9/11, the war in Iraq, the human rights abuses of Gunatanamo Bay, ISIL, the financial crisis of 2008, the great recession and the decline of the US middle class and the crisis of middle class oppurtunity and the "american dream". To some extent this also feeds off a sense of dissapointment the "hope and change" candidacy of Obama back in 2008. This isn't exactly "my" view but more of an "impression" of what it could be. its considerably more complex, but people tend to have "golden age" myths because the past offers a much greater level of certianity than the future. ironically of course, if you want to "make america great again", it won't be by turning the clock back but by pro-actively responding to on-going and developing challanges as a solid foundation for futher development and advancement.

however, a considerable amount of far-right rhetoric engages in sginificant re-writing of American history; e.g. the United States was founded as a Christian Nation, that the authors of the declaration of independence or the US constitution were somehow "gifted" or "unique", or the Confederacy was fighting for States Rights, that the United States had a "manifest destiny" to stretch from coast to coast as the natural frontiers, fighting for freedom and democracy against the Nazis and Japanese and then the godless Commies, etc.There are alot of myths to appeal to. So Trumps slogan maybe should be more like Steven Colberts' "America Again: Re-Becoming the Greatness we never weren't".

Evidently the perception of America's greatness is age defined. I believe our "greatness" started around 1956 with Elvis, rock-and-roll, and my first coonskin hat. The "greatness" continued until late into the Viet Nam War fiasco and my impending trip to that fair country.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

I would start by noting the saying, "Those who talk about the good ol' days are either too young to have been there, or too old to remember them."

However, to point, my next book to read is That Used to be Us, as reviewed here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/03/books/that-used-to-be-us-by-friedman-and-mandelbaum-review.html?_r=0

I am told by a couple of very intelligent people that this is an honest and well researched examination of the very topic of this thread.

 

[Father Heathen]

"Great" as during 1950's America and/or Regan's era.

 

[Augustus]

However, to point, my next book to read is That Used to be Us, as reviewed here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/03/books/that-used-to-be-us-by-friedman-and-mandelbaum-review.html?_r=0

I am told by a couple of very intelligent people that this is an honest and well researched examination of the very topic of this thread.

I operate under the belief that the easiest way to improve your understanding of the world is to never read anything by Thomas Friedman.

 

[Revoltingest]

I operate under the belief that the easiest way to improve your understanding of the world is to never read anything by Thomas Friedman.

The one thing I remember about him is that he can say with
only 1,000 words what an ordinary writer can say with 100.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

I operate under the belief that the easiest way to improve your understanding of the world is to never read anything by Thomas Friedman.

Why?

The one thing I remember about him is that he can say with
only 1,000 words what an ordinary writer can say with 100.

Hmmm...perhaps an audiobook in the car would be a better technique then.....

 

[Draka]

Ironically, I'd say that the last time we, as a nation, were doing pretty damn great was under Bill Clinton. The economy was good, unemployment was down, we had a surplus, the Gulf War had ended, we had a period of peace when it came to foreign affairs. things may not have been perfect in every walk of life, but then, they certainly have never been. In the grand scheme of things though, yeah, the Bill Clinton years. Which is hilarious to me when thinking about how Trump is using that "Make America Great Again" tagline (a rip from Reagan's "Make America Great") and is most likely going to end up toe to toe with the wife of the man who was leading our country when we actually were pretty great. Oh irony, you are the best.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hmmm...perhaps an audiobook in the car would be a better technique then.....

That's how I made this discovery.

 

[Augustus]

Why?

He's a good writer who creates nice believable narratives that are speciously appealing yet fundamentally inane and misleading. The Johnny Cochrane of political writing.

 

[LuisDantas]

The perception that any country or community can or should be "great" is very dangerous IMO.

It is a slightly disguised notion that people should be exceptionally gifted for no good reason and never have to deal with the prices and consequences involved.

 

[jeager106]

Donald Trump wants to "Make America great again!" This assumes that America was once great, but has lost its greatness; that America has deteriorated.

I hear similar things from the other presidential hopefuls.

What I'm wondering is:
When was this period of greatness that we need to recreate?
What economic, domestic and foreign policies were in place during this period of greatness?
How did it deteriorate?
And what features constitute greatness, anyway?

Discuss.

What constitutes greatness?
Our contribution to the free world during WWII. Our finest generation.

 

[esmith]

And for you Bernie supporters I give you Ayn Rand "Atlas Shrugged" to improve your education

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Donald Trump wants to "Make America great again!" This assumes that America was once great, but has lost its greatness; that America has deteriorated.

I hear similar things from the other presidential hopefuls.

What I'm wondering is:
When was this period of greatness that we need to recreate?
What economic, domestic and foreign policies were in place during this period of greatness?
How did it deteriorate?
And what features constitute greatness, anyway?

Discuss.

When was this period of greatness that we need to recreate?
Far as I can tell, it was the 50s or 60s, when Caucasian evangelicals were on top. That's what many of his fans seem to feel.

What economic, domestic and foreign policies were in place during this period of greatness?
I don't think that factors into Trump's platform, unless we're talking a time far removed from distant memory. Trump hasn't indicated wanting war with Russia, for example. He and Putin like each other.

How did it deteriorate?
Going by Trump's fan base: by equalizing rights, and stripping Caucasian Christians of their privileged status.

And what features constitute greatness, anyway?
Trump's fascist, so probably something like Mussolini's Italy.