Making America Weak Again

[esmith]

In regards to the dress code for women (and men), one might check out this official website for meeting the Pope: PAPAL AUDIENCE DRESS CODE

One may note that wearing black or long sleeves are not requirements, but keeping the upper arms covered is.

BTW, when visiting the Dome of the Rock, my wife had to wear a shawl to cover her upper arms as well as a skirt or pants that reached below her knees, and us men had a similar requirement (not a skirt though-- gee, I wonder if a kilt for a Scottish man would be acceptable? Hmmmmm?). The only difference between us men and the women is that the latter also had to wear a head covering.

According to url=Meeting the Pope, how will I dress?]Vatican Protocol[/url]

Vatican protocol states that for papal hearings, women should wear long sleeves, formal black clothing and a black veil to cover the head. Since the 1980's, however, the dress code (tailcoat for men, black dress and veil for women) has become far less rigid.

So we are at an impasse on the protocol it seems.

 

[metis]

According to url=Meeting the Pope, how will I dress?]Vatican Protocol[/url]


So we are at an impasse on the protocol it seems.

Did you actually look at the official papal website that I linked you to?

Best to "get it from the horse's mouth" rather then the other end.

 

[esmith]

Did you actually look at the official papal website that I linked you to?

Best to "get it from the horse's mouth" rather then the other end.

I would think that both are applicable. The "official" dress code is probably due to the changing ideas of today, the one I used is for those that are more "conservative" minded in their dress., say as a Catholic that desired to be more "traditional".
As far as the horse analogy, you can get crap from both ends

 

[metis]

I would think that both are applicable. The "official" dress code is probably due to the changing ideas of today, the one I used is for those that are more "conservative" minded in their dress., say as a Catholic that desired to be more "traditional".
As far as the horse analogy, you can get crap from both ends

I think that where the difference comes in is in terms of what's "legal" versus what's traditional. I doubt that any woman would be turned away for not wearing black when seeing the pope but might be if she comes in wearing only a thong.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm pointing out how many conservatives hate catholics.

You realize Pence is Catholic, don't you?

I would think that both are applicable. The "official" dress code is probably due to the changing ideas of today

The official page is considered the most accurate and credible. There is no reason to go to any other source, sources that would be considered lesser given they are secondary sources and the primary/official source is free and widely available and easy to access.

 

[esmith]

The official page is considered the most accurate and credible. There is no reason to go to any other source, sources that would be considered lesser given they are secondary sources and the primary/official source is free and widely available and easy to access.

Nothing says that if a person, a woman in this instance, might want to show greater homage to the Pope by being attired in what was once considered "appropriate".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nothing says that if a person, a woman in this instance, might want to show greater homage to the Pope by being attired in what was once considered "appropriate".

That is the past though. Those aren't the standards anymore. It was once considered appropriate that only men could go to college, and various people had to wear their robes and funny regalia for events outside of graduation. If the official source is saying "this is how it's done," you have your way of how to do it. Medicine would be very problematic if we were stuck on how things used to be done. The most direct and recent source is the best source. There is no "showing greater homage," especially in dress when presenting before a pope who is known for ditching the religious garb to look more normal as he sneaks off to help take care of the poor. Probably not as easy for him to do that now, but when someone has denounced materialism, capitalism, and our distribution of wealth, do you think he's going feel more honored by fancier clothes and sticking to outdated policy? He has himself went against the grain in many of those traditional areas, after all.

 

[Stevicus]

I'm pointing out how many conservatives hate catholics.

A lot of conservatives are Catholic.

 

[tytlyf]

A lot of conservatives are Catholic.

There's a lot more evangelical ones. I've heard their comments before on catholics. It's like a sunni/shia division amongst christians.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I never really believed much in the idea of "American Exceptionalism." I was raised to be somewhat patriotic, but I'm not blind about it. Still, America is also where I live, so there's a certain motivated self-interest in supporting what is beneficial for America.

As for "opportunities," that may fluctuate from country to country. But America has made some noteworthy achievements and accomplishments. One such accomplishment is in getting the attention of the entire world. It seems like so many people outside of America are interested in what we're doing, our politics, every utterance our president makes. It makes me think that there are some people who are more interested in America than in their own countries.

No problems with your post at all. One reason we're so interested in America is the direct and indirect consequences of political decisions made there.
You guys invade Iraq, Australians die as well as US soldiers. Decisions on relations with China are important to us. Free Trade Agreements or lack thereof are also key life changers for us.

Basically we watch hoping you won't crap the bed. And yet you keep producing Keeping Up with the Kardashians.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There's a lot more evangelical ones. I've heard their comments before on catholics. It's like a sunni/shia division amongst christians.

Not even close to that level. Yes, a number of Conservatives do not like Catholics, but I think you are sorely over estimating this. Indiana is very conservative, and it had a Catholic governor who would later move on to VP. Kennedy was also Catholic, and back then it was believed that would hurt his chances but it didn't.
Conservatives, regardless of denomination, tend to vote Conservative when it comes to forcing their religion as state law.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It depends on your measuring stick. If strength means 'is the world scared of us'? By all means, Trump has foreign leaders peeing their nickers. If strength means strengthening relationships with foreign countries then we have fallen off a cliff with Trump.

We are more scared now, because a mad man is in control, not because of increased strength.
We no longer trust a word he says. or the way he might act.
But we must live with it for now....
The upside is.... that we do not expect that situation to last for very long.

 

[Stevicus]

No problems with your post at all. One reason we're so interested in America is the direct and indirect consequences of political decisions made there.
You guys invade Iraq, Australians die as well as US soldiers. Decisions on relations with China are important to us. Free Trade Agreements or lack thereof are also key life changers for us.

Basically we watch hoping you won't crap the bed. And yet you keep producing Keeping Up with the Kardashians.

It's not just us, though. At least regarding how these political decisions are presented to the American people, it's all a matter of "we are doing this for our allies, not for ourselves." Many Americans have become convinced (through a variety of means) that our role in the world is comparable to that of a chivalric white knight whose only purpose is to do selfless good deeds around the world. Because of the fact that we are a powerful nation, it has become a higher moral responsibility that we do what we do, as if Americans really don't even have any real choice anymore. We are told that our "friends" need help, and what kind of cad would refuse to help his friends when they need it?

This manipulative, propagandistic notion is what has generated and driven support for US military interventionism around the world since WW2. This also appears to be the same basic idea regarding the topic of this thread, since some are in a panic that Trump ostensibly is alienating America's "friends" and possibly trying to reduce or diminish America's supposed moral obligations and "commitment" to our allies. I don't agree with much of what Trump is doing (and he may end up crapping the bed anyway), although I think it's worthwhile to take a long, hard look at our foreign policy and try to come up with something better, even if we have to think outside the box.

 

[Stevicus]

There's a lot more evangelical ones. I've heard their comments before on catholics. It's like a sunni/shia division amongst christians.

I don't think it's quite as bad as it used to be.

 

[Underhill]

We are more scared now, because a mad man is in control, not because of increased strength.
We no longer trust a word he says. or the way he might act.
But we must live with it for now....
The upside is.... that we do not expect that situation to last for very long.

And I hope you are right...

 

[leibowde84]

I think you might have twisted two countries around because Marcon is quite popular now in France, and he certainly is not Trump-like. OTOH, Brexit and the election of May fit the Trump scenario, but look at what just happened with her in the new election she called for.

No, suncowiam had it right. France learned from our mistake in electing Trump. Might be the reason why Marcon is so popular.

 

[leibowde84]

So do you think that the alt-left minions understand that they are holding a losing hand?

What/Who is the "alt-left"?

 

[leibowde84]

Obama was the first to deny American Exceptionalism. I, for one, am proud of the achievements and liberties found in this country that are unimaginable in many other countries. As for the bowing, check the video tape of Obama meeting the king of Saudi Arabia for the first time. Totally disgusting, IMHO. Compare that with Melania Trump defiantly refusing to wear a head covering in other Mideastern countries; you go, girl.

You do realize that Trump insulted Michelle Obama because she did not wear a headscarf, right? Ignorance is bliss I guess.

 

[leibowde84]

You do realize that Melania identifies herself as a Catholic don't you? You do realize that Catholic women wear a veil in church don't you. You do realize that Melania is not a Muslim don't you?
From your post it appears you may be slightly confused.

I grew up as a Catholic. Went to Catholic grade school, church at least twice a week, and then went to a Jesuit high school. I have been to hundreds of Catholic masses and have never ONCE seen a woman wearing a veil at one.

 

[leibowde84]

Why Women Wear Chapel Veils - And Should You Too? - Catholic Stand

Did you not read your own cited article. It says that it USED to be a tradition. It is not common in the least anymore. Wrong again.