Making restitution

[Messianic Israelite]

This is my first thread in this dir so hopefully all is well.

I've been reading the Hebrew Scriptures recently and I've been finding the law really enlightening. I found in the Law Numbers 5:6-8. To summarize it is basically says that if you are guilty of sin you are to make restitution and add a 1/5th part to it. Now, this I found is really important because in the New Testament there was a man by the name of Zacchaeus who understood this. In Luke 19:8 he offers to repay those who had wronged financially by giving them four times as much as he owed them.

My point is this. If we have wronged someone by stealing, then we can restore what we have stolen and add a 1/5 part to it by giving them that amount in worth (money). But what about sinning against Yahweh. How do you add a 1/5th part to it with Yahweh. Most sins are not sinning against our neighbor as much as they are sinning against Yahweh. For example, if someone commits adultery, they have wronged Yahweh. My question is, has anyone any idea how one would make restitution and add a 1/5th part to it by sinning in (say) committing adultery, or misusing the name (the 3rd commandment) or breaking another commandment that relates more to Yahweh than our neighbor.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Messianic.

 

[74x12]

This is my first thread in this dir so hopefully all is well.

I've been reading the Hebrew Scriptures recently and I've been finding the law really enlightening. I found in the Law Numbers 5:6-8. To summarize it is basically says that if you are guilty of sin you are to make restitution and add a 1/5th part to it. Now, this I found is really important because in the New Testament there was a man by the name of Zacchaeus who understood this. In Luke 19:8 he offers to repay those who had wronged financially by giving them four times as much as he owed them.

My point is this. If we have wronged someone by stealing, then we can restore what we have stolen and add a 1/5 part to it by giving them that amount in worth (money). But what about sinning against Yahweh. How do you add a 1/5th part to it with Yahweh. Most sins are not sinning against our neighbor as much as they are sinning against Yahweh. For example, if someone commits adultery, they have wronged Yahweh. My question is, has anyone any idea how one would make restitution and add a 1/5th part to it by sinning in (say) committing adultery, or misusing the name (the 3rd commandment) or breaking another commandment that relates more to Yahweh than our neighbor.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Messianic.

There is no way to repay greater sins. This law of atonement was for lesser sins against your neighbor. God alone can forgive greater sins for His own sake as He said in Isaiah 43:25 and Daniel knew this and so prayed for God to forgive for His own sake in Daniel 9:19.

This is why the church is purchased with God's own blood as in Acts 20:28. Only God can forgive the greater sins. The Torah itself never provides a sacrifice or a means of restitution for greater sins. All the sacrifices were for lesser sins.

When David sinned and committed adultery and murder he did not offer a sacrifice of atonement for himself. That would have not been accepted. Instead, he knew that the sacrifice God wanted was a broken and contrite spirit. (Psalm 51:16-17) Because God would forgive Him by the blood of Jesus Christ and no other payment would suffice.

 

[Kenny]

This is my first thread in this dir so hopefully all is well.

I've been reading the Hebrew Scriptures recently and I've been finding the law really enlightening. I found in the Law Numbers 5:6-8. To summarize it is basically says that if you are guilty of sin you are to make restitution and add a 1/5th part to it. Now, this I found is really important because in the New Testament there was a man by the name of Zacchaeus who understood this. In Luke 19:8 he offers to repay those who had wronged financially by giving them four times as much as he owed them.

My point is this. If we have wronged someone by stealing, then we can restore what we have stolen and add a 1/5 part to it by giving them that amount in worth (money). But what about sinning against Yahweh. How do you add a 1/5th part to it with Yahweh. Most sins are not sinning against our neighbor as much as they are sinning against Yahweh. For example, if someone commits adultery, they have wronged Yahweh. My question is, has anyone any idea how one would make restitution and add a 1/5th part to it by sinning in (say) committing adultery, or misusing the name (the 3rd commandment) or breaking another commandment that relates more to Yahweh than our neighbor.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Messianic.

Because God would forgive Him by the blood of Jesus Christ and no other payment would suffice.

I think this is key.

If we don't factor in the work of the Cross, then we negate love, grace and faith. As I see it, we end up slapping the Father in the face saying "The sacrifice of your son wasn't enough!"

Anyhow, that's my two cents.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

There is no way to repay greater sins. This law of atonement was for lesser sins against your neighbor. God alone can forgive greater sins for His own sake as He said in Isaiah 43:25 and Daniel knew this and so prayed for God to forgive for His own sake in Daniel 9:19.

This is why the church is purchased with God's own blood as in Acts 20:28. Only God can forgive the greater sins. The Torah itself never provides a sacrifice or a means of restitution for greater sins. All the sacrifices were for lesser sins.

When David sinned and committed adultery and murder he did not offer a sacrifice of atonement for himself. That would have not been accepted. Instead, he knew that the sacrifice God wanted was a broken and contrite spirit. (Psalm 51:16-17) Because God would forgive Him by the blood of Jesus Christ and no other payment would suffice.

74X12 Thanks for the response. If that were the case, surely the Law would simply say this Law can only be applied to stealing as it can’t really be applied to any other law.

 

[Tumah]

74X12 Thanks for the response. If that were the case, surely the Law would simply say this Law can only be applied to stealing as it can’t really be applied to any other law.

This is the Chrisitianity DIR, so here's the form of a question:
Do Christians read Lev. 5:21-26 which is the first time the Law in Num. 5 is mentioned?

 

[74x12]

This is the Chrisitianity DIR, so here's the form of a question:
Do Christians read Lev. 5:21-26 which is the first time the Law in Num. 5 is mentioned?

Yes. The point is that although God says in Lev 5:21 they should make restitution for stealing; that doesn't mean there is anyway to make restitution for murder for example. How can you really make up for murder? There is no way.

 

[Tumah]

Yes. The point is that although God says in Lev 5:21 they should make restitution for stealing; that doesn't mean there is anyway to make restitution for murder for example. How can you really make up for murder? There is no way.

The extra fifth appears to be for having sworn falsely about it, not for having stolen.
I'm not sure you should need to make restitution for murder. The dead don't own anything, so it's not stealing. But this is not the debate section, so I'll leave that for some other time.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

This is the Chrisitianity DIR, so here's the form of a question:
Do Christians read Lev. 5:21-26 which is the first time the Law in Num. 5 is mentioned?

This is the Chrisitianity DIR, so here's the form of a question:
Do Christians read Lev. 5:21-26 which is the first time the Law in Num. 5 is mentioned?

Sorry, I'm probably being really dumb here but I don't have Leviticus 5:21-26 in my Bible. Did you misquote? Leviticus 5 only goes up to verse 19.

 

[74x12]

The extra fifth appears to be for having sworn falsely about it, not for having stolen.
I'm not sure you should need to make restitution for murder.

The act of restitution was showing sincere repentance. That is turning away from the evil action they were doing. The restitution was not atonement. It was repentance. I believe there is a key difference between restitution(an act of repentance) and actual atonement.

The dead don't own anything, so it's not stealing. But this is not the debate section, so I'll leave that for some other time.

True, it's not stealing. Of course.

 

[74x12]

74X12 Thanks for the response. If that were the case, surely the Law would simply say this Law can only be applied to stealing as it can’t really be applied to any other law.

I think you can apply it to other things but you shouldn't feel compelled to do so unless God directs you. John the baptist did instruct some people to "bring forth fruits meet for repentance" so, basically he demanded proof they had repented. But, it would be wrong of us (in my belief) to always demand everyone prove they had repented.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

The extra fifth appears to be for having sworn falsely about it, not for having stolen.
I'm not sure you should need to make restitution for murder. The dead don't own anything, so it's not stealing. But this is not the debate section, so I'll leave that for some other time.

Hi Tumah. Good afternoon. OK, would you care to explain how one would add a 1/5th part to something sworn falsely.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

I think you can apply it to other things but you shouldn't feel compelled to do so unless God directs you. John the baptist did instruct some people to "bring forth fruits meet for repentance" so, basically he demanded proof they had repented. But, it would be wrong of us (in my belief) to always demand everyone prove they had repented.

Yes.

I was thinking hypothetically as an example, if I were responsible for someone losing their home, would helping them get a new home be my restitution but adding a 1/5 part to it could be giving them something to help them out in their new home, or perhaps even volunteering to help the homeless in a homeless shelter or charity. I think that's the Spirit behind that Law.

 

[Tumah]

Hi Tumah. Good afternoon. OK, would you care to explain how one would add a 1/5th part to something sworn falsely.

Thanks in advance.

The case that it's talking about is when someone owes money or stole from another and was brought to court. If he admits it, then he simply pays the money he owes. If he denies it, then he's made to take an oath that he doesn't owe the other money. If it's revealed after that oath that he actually had owed the money, then an additional 1/5 is added to the value that he owes the other party.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

The case that it's talking about is when someone owes money or stole from another and was brought to court. If he admits it, then he simply pays the money he owes. If he denies it, then he's made to take an oath that he doesn't owe the other money. If it's revealed after that oath that he actually had owed the money, then an additional 1/5 is added to the value that he owes the other party.

I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Looks like my interpretation of that Law was quite a bit off

Thanks.