Man,animals and God

[Logical Faith]

Hello.

Why did God create animals of various sizes, from small microbes to whales and dinosaurs? Can all these live in harmony?

If the Garden of Eden was a paradise with no death, does this mean that small ants did not die when man trampled on them by mistake?

Our everyday life experience supports the satanic doctrine of survival and evolution where species fight each other and the big kill the small. People kill many animals and they dont care about it. Everything that moves lusts for survival and dominion and sees only opponents that must be wiped out.

Do you like this and was this the situation in the state of Eden?


Also, why man seems to have a double nature? He seems to be half an animal(because he wants food and women) and half a spiritual being closer to God, making thoughts for eternity.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Hello.

Why did God create animals of various sizes, from small microbes to whales and dinosaurs? Can all these live in harmony?

If the Garden of Eden was a paradise with no death, does this mean that small ants did not die when man trampled on them by mistake?

Our everyday life experience supports the satanic doctrine of survival and evolution where species fight each other and the big kill the small. People kill many animals and they dont care about it. Everything that moves lusts for survival and dominion and sees only opponents that must be wiped out.

Do you like this and was this the situation in the state of Eden?


Also, why man seems to have a double nature? He seems to be half an animal(because he wants food and women) and half a spiritual being closer to God, making thoughts for eternity.

Just my own opinion...I don't think it's worth the trouble of trying to merge the mythology of the Abrahamic creation story with the modern science-based model of evolution. What's more, survival isn't all about conflict; there are significant components of cooperation as well as coexistence in nature. To focus only on the conflict is to miss much of the truth about our existence as living creatures.

Again, just my opinion, but I don't see a "dual nature" for humans that is any different than the nature of animals; humans are just another kind of animal, differing in particular set of skills and abilities and the degree to which we use them, not a difference in kind. Again, move away from trying to accommodate an ancient mythology and modern science, the questions you raise just evaporate, or change into very different questions.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hello LF.

In the Islamic scriptures, there is no telling that Eden was or is without death. What they tell is that when the end of days comes, judgement takes place and people go there, they will be without death then. Every thing God described related to Eden is not necessarily a description of its true original nature, at least not that of the state it was before Father Adam and Mother Eve descended to earth.

Accordingly, this means if we did not really descend to earth, we might have still been prone to death.

As for different creations, God says in the Islamic views that earth and many of what's on it are created to accommodate and please humans. Different creations are there for us to enjoy and watch, and above that they are their to contemplate upon. Different animals and plants are there to eat, and the their differences make them taste differently, and different animals have different attributes to serve humans for different purposes. God asks rhetorical questions in the Quraan about animals and other creations.

That's my understanding to the situation.

Perhaps fellas from other faiths could provide different views from their own faith, or another Muslim commenting to mine.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Bwahahaha......

No one realises we are organic mechs run by microbes and cells.

The master plan is running perfectly.

 

[Nietzsche]

Bwahahaha......

No one realises we are organic mechs run by microbes and cells.

The master plan is running perfectly.

Oh god we're all Evangelions?!

 

[Riverwolf]

Wouldn't this thread be better suited in the Debates section? The OP seems to be inviting debate.

 

[Logical Faith]

Just my own opinion...I don't think it's worth the trouble of trying to merge the mythology of the Abrahamic creation story with the modern science-based model of evolution. What's more, survival isn't all about conflict; there are significant components of cooperation as well as coexistence in nature. To focus only on the conflict is to miss much of the truth about our existence as living creatures.

Again, just my opinion, but I don't see a "dual nature" for humans that is any different than the nature of animals; humans are just another kind of animal, differing in particular set of skills and abilities and the degree to which we use them, not a difference in kind. Again, move away from trying to accommodate an ancient mythology and modern science, the questions you raise just evaporate, or change into very different questions.

The evolution religion in its' whole aspects is about racism and hate. It doesnt make much sense if some species need each other for survival. Needing someone for your survival its not love but egotistical benefit.
The evolutionists have no morality because there is one and absolute, but because it supports their benefit for survival. Otherwise they would stab to death their fellow man and destroy their civilization.

Just because the current reality of large and small animals supports a specific part of the "evolution bible" as true(the one talking about wars and survival), it doesnt mean that evolution is true. Just because people and animals kill each other for survival is true, it doesnt mean that a species is made by another species through "random mutations".

Also, its possible that the Bible might not be 100% correct or that God didnt create a perfect world.

 

[Logical Faith]

Hello LF.

In the Islamic scriptures, there is no telling that Eden was or is without death. What they tell is that when the end of days comes, judgement takes place and people go there, they will be without death then. Every thing God described related to Eden is not necessarily a description of its true original nature, at least not that of the state it was before Father Adam and Mother Eve descended to earth.

Accordingly, this means if we did not really descend to earth, we might have still been prone to death.

As for different creations, God says in the Islamic views that earth and many of what's on it are created to accommodate and please humans. Different creations are there for us to enjoy and watch, and above that they are their to contemplate upon. Different animals and plants are there to eat, and the their differences make them taste differently, and different animals have different attributes to serve humans for different purposes. God asks rhetorical questions in the Quraan about animals and other creations.

That's my understanding to the situation.

Perhaps fellas from other faiths could provide different views from their own faith, or another Muslim commenting to mine.

Generally the idea of serving would create masters and slaves. Not quite different than the theory of evolution/survival and the law of the jungle. Did God want the animals to be slaves of man? For what reason?

Could it be symbolic? Man trying to tame the beastly nature and keep the cosmos in order, so that chaos wont come and Earth be peaceful? Were the animals really wild since their appearance on Eearth or did they become wild after the original sin?

Man has something different than the rest of animals because he doesnt care just for food and survival of his organism. Man can fight the needs of the body.So he looks higher than the mortal world.

 

[Sapiens]

The evolution religion in its' whole aspects is about racism and hate. It doesnt make much sense if some species need each other for survival. Needing someone for your survival its not love but egotistical benefit.
The evolutionists have no morality because there is one and absolute, but because it supports their benefit for survival. Otherwise they would stab to death their fellow man and destroy their civilization.

Just because the current reality of large and small animals supports a specific part of the "evolution bible" as true(the one talking about wars and survival), it doesnt mean that evolution is true. Just because people and animals kill each other for survival is true, it doesnt mean that a species is made by another species through "random mutations".

Also, its possible that the Bible might not be 100% correct or that God didnt create a perfect world.

You really do need to read up on Evolutionary Stable Solutions prior to such public bloviation.

 

[Logical Faith]

You really do need to read up on Evolutionary Stable Solutions prior to such public bloviation.

Lol, what is Evolution Stable Solutions???

Do you disagree that evolution is a hateful doctrine as the abrahamic religions you judge as hateful?

If we accept Abrahamic religions are really hateful and materialistic, then they're only a part of the general hatred we see in the world. Atheism and evolution are also a part. There is no rea love and morality in atheism and evolution which are part of materialism.

There are two kinds of people. These who describe reality and thosse who accept reality. Do you just descibe hatred and wars in nature or do you accept them as something physical that should not make us feel bad?

Do you enjoy seeing a wild animal tearing off a sheep? Do you like blood?

 

[Logical Faith]

There's only one dump thing left to hear from evolutionists - that they believe in a world of love and harmony.

By the way, humanitarians are also racists. How can they accuse Abrahamic religions for being man-centered when they put humanity above all the rest of creation?

At least in the OT we listen from Isaiah about a new world like the Golden Age where God, man, animals will live in peace and harmony. On the other hand evolution teaches that there will be eternal war and hatred between living creatures, like Heraclitus who said War is the Father of all and he makes some of the people masters but others slaves.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Generally the idea of serving would create masters and slaves. Not quite different than the theory of evolution/survival and the law of the jungle. Did God want the animals to be slaves of man? For what reason?

Could it be symbolic? Man trying to tame the beastly nature and keep the cosmos in order, so that chaos wont come and Earth be peaceful? Were the animals really wild since their appearance on Eearth or did they become wild after the original sin?

Man has something different than the rest of animals because he doesnt care just for food and survival of his organism. Man can fight the needs of the body.So he looks higher than the mortal world.

But that's how we managed to live for generations, and without it we would have perished or at least suffered heavy losses and tragedies. Today with technology we could feel that there is no need for animals for that, which is highly subjective, so we don't feel the necessity of that relationship just because we don't know how it feeling living with them having never lived in the past before having the technology that covers up for them. We don't live in an ideal perfect life. Animals were a real necessity for transportation and productivity for generations, and they are still important in so many cases even now.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Hello.

Why did God create animals of various sizes, from small microbes to whales and dinosaurs? Can all these live in harmony?

If the Garden of Eden was a paradise with no death, does this mean that small ants did not die when man trampled on them by mistake?

Our everyday life experience supports the satanic doctrine of survival and evolution where species fight each other and the big kill the small. People kill many animals and they dont care about it. Everything that moves lusts for survival and dominion and sees only opponents that must be wiped out.

Do you like this and was this the situation in the state of Eden?


Also, why man seems to have a double nature? He seems to be half an animal(because he wants food and women) and half a spiritual being closer to God, making thoughts for eternity.

Psalms said 'he made leviatihan to play in the sea' and in Genesis he made the trees for beauty'. God is artist and wise and it displays his depth of wisdom and creativity and power in making starts and microbes and dinosaurs.

Man is similar in some ways but very different in others. Made from dust, like the animals the lowest thing Man is made to reflect and reflect upon God's glory and although tarnished and fallen the redeemed will be higher than the angels and part of God's family.


I see it like this song:

Above all Powers: Love pleased love, loving even me
(lyrics fix attempt of a popular Christian song ):


Before all others, there God, the one
And in that glory love between father and a son
There was communion. joy majesty and care
it would fill eternity to share.

chorus
Coming from the throne poured out a song,
worlds were born to make His story known
Painting praise through stars and mouths of littlest ones,
Molding wonder reflectors, reflecting your glory in it all
From dust, but making much of Thee above all

like roses fallen ruined tarnished by a fall, He picked them up, and made them part of His crown.
He picked me up, He breathed new life, and wove me into His crown.
Love pleased love loving even me
chorus end

Before any angel or any star
Before any creature would magnify his worth
There were heights and depths and breadths in God to know
it would take profound mercy and eternity to show.

(may read, or sing )
Before all confusion, before all tears,
Before all sadness and the hunger games began
Before my fears, my prayer, before my highest hopes
Love pleased love to make me part of His home

( sing )
Crucified, laid behind a stone
Lived to die, rejected and alone
A bride prepared for the Son
Purified, radiant and in love
like roses fallen ruined tarnished by a fall, He picked them up, and made them part of His crown.
Love pleased love to love even me

(may read for contrast)
You make the going out of morning and evening shout for joy
that hearts at the ends of this earth may be in awe of your work
Yet so much more will the sunset and sunrise of the Son of God
fill hearts with marveling, love mercy, and praise into the ages of the ages
Beyond all

chorus
Coming from the throne poured out a song,
worlds were born to make His story known
Painting praise through stars and mouths of littlest ones,
Molding wonder reflectors, reflecting your glory in it all
From dust, but making much of Thee above all

like roses fallen tarnished by a fall, He picked them up, and made them part of His crown.
He picked me up, He breathed new life, and wove me into His crown.
Love pleased love loving even me
chorus end

The Son please the Father, loving even me

 

[whirlingmerc]

Can they live in harmony?

The world was made good but is a good but broken world in need of redemption someday.
The lion will lie down with the lamb then.

 

[Logical Faith]

I've got a very important question.

Does the existence of death and generations proves that theres no resurrection for the living creatures? The ancient jews use the word "resurrect" for the son. The son is said to be the resurrection of the deceased father.

Why do animals bear babies? Are we just robots who must work for the racist evolution dogma - to multiply our species and work for the dominion of our tribe?

How all life will be resurrected, since theres no space in Earth? Why doesnt God make more space?

It seems just one life is not worthy in this crazy world. Millions of creatures die and millions of others are born each second.

If each person is important for God, why do they die and others are born?

It seems too illogical or satanic, we look like robots made to work for gods and each of us is not important at all. We're just a small part of the long chain. The survival of the species is more important than the a single person. Thats why racists sacrifice themselves for the nation.

 

[Riverwolf]

I've got a very important question.

Does the existence of death and generations proves that theres no resurrection for the living creatures? The ancient jews use the word "resurrect" for the son. The son is said to be the resurrection of the deceased father.

Why do animals bear babies? Are we just robots who must work for the racist evolution dogma - to multiply our species and work for the dominion of our tribe?

"Dominion?" "Racist?" "Robots?" Where are you getting these notions??

For such an "important question", it doesn't make any sense.

How all life will be resurrected, since theres no space in Earth? Why doesnt God make more space?

It seems just one life is not worthy in this crazy world. Millions of creatures die and millions of others are born each second.

If each person is important for God, why do they die and others are born?

It seems too illogical or satanic, we look like robots made to work for gods and each of us is not important at all. We're just a small part of the long chain. The survival of the species is more important than the a single person. Thats why racists sacrifice themselves for the nation.

What in the name of Woden's Holy Spear are you going on about?!

 

[DawudTalut]

Hello.

Peace be on you.

Why did God create animals of various sizes, from small microbes to whales and dinosaurs? Can all these live in harmony?

God is Lord of all worlds.
Other animals share planet with human.
They are for the benefit of human -- the ultimate fruit of all creations.
Each has their sphere of life though.
if they do not cross each other, can live in harmony.

If the Garden of Eden was a paradise with no death, does this mean that small ants did not die when man trampled on them by mistake?

From Ahmadiyya Muslim understanding of Quran, Adam was not in paradise. Words used are also used for Garden. it was earth place.

Our everyday life experience supports the satanic doctrine of survival and evolution where species fight each other and the big kill the small. People kill many animals and they dont care about it. Everything that moves lusts for survival and dominion and sees only opponents that must be wiped out.

Do you like this and was this the situation in the state of Eden?

Survival of fittest works.
If human establish such system of rights that species grow peacefuly, there will be peace. But we see countries attacking countries for natural resources. In corrupt nations, poor dying, rich becoming fat.
Satanic temptation work when human forget God and returning to God for accountability.

Also, why man seems to have a double nature? He seems to be half an animal(because he wants food and women) and half a spiritual being closer to God, making thoughts for eternity.

Human is born with raw facilities . It is animal state.
True religions teaches human morals. It is Moral state.
Then comes Satisfaction-with-God state. it is spiritual.
So true religion make animal-human into moral & spiritual Human.
[More in Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad]

 

[Logical Faith]

"Dominion?" "Racist?" "Robots?" Where are you getting these notions??

For such an "important question", it doesn't make any sense.



What in the name of Woden's Holy Spear are you going on about?!

You dont understand?

I mean the reality we live seems to indicate that a tribe, a nation, a species seems to be taken as more important than a single ordinary person. But resurrection theories from classic religions, teach that each soul is important, not only the king as they thought earlier.

Everybody strives to work, be sacrificed and have descendants as though he is a slave working for the survival and evolution of his nation. He seems like a small dot in a long chain, having the duty to fight so that the chain won't be broken but be multiplied.

Most people believe its man's duty and destiny to work like dog, make descendants and be sacrificed for his tribe and nation. They think a single life is unimportant and should be sacrificed for the "whole".

All these theories stem from the belief in survival and evolution. Evolution means expansion.

On the other most classic and spiritual religions teach that evolution is wrong and man should deny materialism and all the pleasures of this world. They teach that man should become spirit needing nothing, by becoming freed from flesh and all its' material needs.

 

[Riverwolf]

a species seems to be taken as more important than a single ordinary person.

What, you never saw Wrath of Khan?

Evolution means expansion.

No, it doesn't. Evolution simply means change over time in response to changing environment.

On the other most classic and spiritual religions teach that evolution is wrong and man should deny materialism and all the pleasures of this world. They teach that man should become spirit needing nothing, by becoming freed from flesh and all its' material needs.

Ascetic religions do, yes. But those have always been the exception, not the rule with religions. The vast majority of religions throughout history have been about day-to-day life.