Man is not an animal

[KWED]

I 100% guarantee you that there are no animals on this forum debating humans are animals.

Well, I 100% guarantee that you are 100% wrong then. Everyone furiously tapping away here is an animal, bey definition. Your opinion is irrelevant to the facts.

If they were really animals they would be guided by instinct and couldn't care less about arguing if they are animals. Animals don't argue if they are animals.

You think that humans aren't influenced by instinct, or that other animal species don't argue?

And they certainly don't contemplate the absence of God in their lives.

I don't do that that either.

And they don't think of the future either.

Yes they do. Why do you think some species store food and return to it later, sometimes months later?

Humans that argue that they are animals, and try to reason that God doesn't exist kinda are doing the opposite of what they think they're doing. But aren't self-aware enough to know it. I say that in a tongue-in-cheek kinda way.

With all due respect, I don't think you know what you are saying.

 

[KWED]

Not all people. For example, the atheists have schizophrenic split between God and reality. But most of them are not in mental clinics.

Yes, you have already explained that you do not understand what schizophrenia is.
For someone who claims to be an intellectual colossus, you are trying very hard to show otherwise.

 

[Altfish]

Larger brain has nothing to do with it.

It's about the number of neuronal connections.

(Brain size measurements go back to the age of determining which "Races" were less intelligent or more inclined to be "civilized" based on brain volume. )

As soon as I posted, I thought, "Some clever clogs will tell me it is nothing to do with brain size" which I knew

 

[Mock Turtle]

Apes lack the ability to speak even if they can type on a keyboard. This is because they lack a language center in their brain.

Most of your post I would agree with but I think this last is not true - for example:

Science | AAAS

And if this wasn't so I doubt the various attempts (Kanzi, Panbanisha, Washoe, Koko, etc.) to get the various primate species to understand human language and/or speech would have had any success, but apparently they did have varying amounts of success - as to symbols or words spoken being understood. Even a dog that can recognise a few hundred objects by human speech might have such too.

 

[Eyes to See]

Well, I 100% guarantee that you are 100% wrong then. Everyone furiously tapping away here is an animal, bey definition. Your opinion is irrelevant to the facts.

You think that humans aren't influenced by instinct, or that other animal species don't argue?

I don't do that that either.

Yes they do. Why do you think some species store food and return to it later, sometimes months later?

With all due respect, I don't think you know what you are saying.

The very fact that you have the ability to take the time out to argue that you are an animal with me proves you aren't an animal. You're disproving the very thing you wish to believe in. If you don't believe me try this. Go to any animal, dog, cat, horse, fish, whatever you have around and try and start an argument with it. See how it reasons. See if the animal cares if you call it by a different animal type. Or see if it can think on anything you reason with it. See if the animal gets offended if you try to reason with it it was created or ask it if it has a concept of what a God is.

Get back to me with your findings.

 

[blü 2]

Animals do not have articulate speech and poets. Man is not an animal.

I freely own to being an animal. I'm an example of Homo sapiens sapiens, I'm a mammal. I die in the absence of air. I starve in the absence of food. I excrete. Being a male animal, I breed by copulation with a female H sap sap.

What exactly are you ashamed of?

Animals know the Lord, unlike the atheists.

What real entity do you intend to denote when you say 'The Lord'?

What evidence acceptable to science do you base that claim on?

the atheists have schizophrenic split between God and reality.

That's easily solved ─ just point to a real God out there in reality. A quality video would be a good start.

 

[KWED]

The very fact that you have the ability to take the time out to argue that you are an animal with me proves you aren't an animal. You're disproving the very thing you wish to believe in. If you don't believe me try this. Go to any animal, dog, cat, horse, fish, whatever you have around and try and start an argument with it. See how it reasons. See if the animal cares if you call it by a different animal type. Or see if it can think on anything you reason with it. See if the animal gets offended if you try to reason with it it was created or ask it if it has a concept of what a God is.

Get back to me with your findings.

You seem confused. I did not claim that I can engage in conversation with an animal. I said that animals can argue (which you claimed they can't). This is a simple fact that can be observed during feeding, mating, establishing pack hierarchies, etc.
Also, I have argued with my dog on many an occasion. I explain why he should drop the ball. He responds in the negative. This argument can go on for some time.
He also gets offended when he asks to go out with me but I explain he has to stay in but he doesn't accept my reasoning.

I notice you "forgot" to respond to your other points that I dismantled. Hmm...

 

[Wildswanderer]

Because their parents were indoctrinated as children as well. Long held myths and superstitions don't have to be true you know.
Also worth remembering that formalised religions are a relatively new addition to human society.

Do you think other primates are also "spiritual beings"? What about dolphins?

So you just keep pushing it back? Lol? How does that prove your idea?
No I do think any animal is capable of being spiritual, that's a big difference between us and them.

 

[Windwalker]

No I do think any animal is capable of being spiritual, that's a big difference between us and them.

How so? How do you define what "being spiritual" means? Do you believe being spiritual means having religious ideas and beliefs and symbolisms? I know plenty of humans who consider themselves "spiritual but not religious", so it doesn't seem to mean that.

Does it mean something else, like being connected to the world and others? Does it mean feeling at peace in the core of your being? What exactly does "being spiritual" mean to you, and why do you believe other animals besides human beings are not capable of whatever that is? How exactly do you know that they don't or can't experience that. Explain.

 

[Polymath257]

I 100% guarantee you that there are no animals on this forum debating humans are animals. It is only humans that are doing that. If they were really animals they would be guided by instinct and couldn't care less about arguing if they are animals. Animals don't argue if they are animals. And they certainly don't contemplate the absence of God in their lives. And they don't think of the future either.

Humans that argue that they are animals, and try to reason that God doesn't exist kinda are doing the opposite of what they think they're doing. But aren't self-aware enough to know it. I say that in a tongue-in-cheek kinda way.

And I 100% guarantee that *all* those arguing on this forum are animals. To be an animal is a simple question of biology: do we have particular types of cells or not? To be a vertebrate is also a fairly simple question of biology: do we have a backbone or not? To be a mammal is also a simple question of biology: do we have fur or hair and do our females produce milk?

I can go on, but the basic facts are clear: humans are a type of animal.

We are a type of animal that has language, can argue about whether we are animals, and that builds complex societies and invents religions.

Being an animal is NOT the same as 'relying on instinct'.

 

[Polymath257]

The very fact that you have the ability to take the time out to argue that you are an animal with me proves you aren't an animal. You're disproving the very thing you wish to believe in. If you don't believe me try this. Go to any animal, dog, cat, horse, fish, whatever you have around and try and start an argument with it. See how it reasons. See if the animal cares if you call it by a different animal type. Or see if it can think on anything you reason with it. See if the animal gets offended if you try to reason with it it was created or ask it if it has a concept of what a God is.

Get back to me with your findings.

Irrelevant. To be an animal is a question of biology, not of culture.

And humans are animals. They are also mammals and primates.

Your definition of 'animal' is non-standard.

 

[Polymath257]

I suspect that my dogs thoughts are pretty simple. " Eat, eat, eat, eat stinky stuff, Stinky stuff yummy! Sleep, bark if tied up, make sad eyes at person, sleep, jump, jump, jump, snuggle, jump, run, sleep!
Lick everyone!

And I suspect that they have much more complex thoughts than this. it is clear that they *do* reason and anticipate. They do form communities and interact in complex ways.

Maybe some are toning their complexity down to suit the audience?

 

[Windwalker]

Maybe some are toning their complexity down to suit the audience?

I suspect that may be the case. It's their way of making the owner feel appreciated. Cats just don't care if you feel bad that they are smarter than you.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Animals do not have articulate speech and poets.

That is not part of the biological definition of "animal".

Man is not an animal.

"Man" doesn't go by names like "questfortruth".
Therefor, the OP author is not human.

See? That's how easy it is to draw silly conclusions by arbitrarily and dishonestly adding negative attributes to definitions.

So what you actually did there is list attributes specific to humans.
So really, your "working definition" of animal is just the definition of "animal", to which you added:

"...but not humans".

That's just silly.

Why stop at animal? Why not also at vertebrate, tetrapod, eukaryote, mammal, primate, ape?

Go ahead and create a whole new arbitrary extra-special category for a single instance of a species you think is so special.

It's just silly.

 

[Wildswanderer]

How so? How do you define what "being spiritual" means? Do you believe being spiritual means having religious ideas and beliefs and symbolisms? I know plenty of humans who consider themselves "spiritual but not religious", so it doesn't seem to mean that.

Does it mean something else, like being connected to the world and others? Does it mean feeling at peace in the core of your being? What exactly does "being spiritual" mean to you, and why do you believe other animals besides human beings are not capable of whatever that is? How exactly do you know that they don't or can't experience that. Explain.

Being spiritual is attempting to connect with the spirit world.

spir·it·u·al
/ˈspiriCH(o͞o)əl/
Learn to pronounce

adjective

1. 1.
   relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

An animal is only concerned with the physical reality. They aren't capable of thinking outside that box, IMO.

 

[Wildswanderer]

And I suspect that they have much more complex thoughts than this. it is clear that they *do* reason and anticipate. They do form communities and interact in complex ways.

They react to stimulu. They can reason on a very elementary level. They can't count to ten for example but they can learn doing this equals that.

 

[Windwalker]

Being spiritual is attempting to connect with the spirit world.

spir·it·u·al
/ˈspiriCH(o͞o)əl/
Learn to pronounce

adjective

1. 1.
   relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

An animal is only concerned with the physical reality. They aren't capable of thinking outside that box, IMO.

How do you know they don't? Be specific if you can. Also, I don't see anything in that definition from the dictionary about "spirit world". What is that? I'd like to hear your explanation of spirituality, as clearly it is going beyond what the dictionary said.

One other point, clearly you believe that spirituality is a matter of "thinking", or reasoning. Correct? You said animals aren't capable of "thinking outside that box", so therefore spirituality is cognitive in nature, according to you?

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

That's because you are such a fun guy.

Yes! You beat me to it. One of my favorite 'dad jokes'.
I like pointing out to people that our (animal in general) DNA structure is closer in similarity to fungus than it is to plant life.

You seem confused. I did not claim that I can engage in conversation with an animal. I said that animals can argue (which you claimed they can't). This is a simple fact that can be observed during feeding, mating, establishing pack hierarchies, etc.
Also, I have argued with my dog on many an occasion. I explain why he should drop the ball. He responds in the negative. This argument can go on for some time.
He also gets offended when he asks to go out with me but I explain he has to stay in but he doesn't accept my reasoning.

I notice you "forgot" to respond to your other points that I dismantled. Hmm...

I will stand on the claim that I HAVE had small/short conversation with another species of the animal kingdom. My mother's friend has two African Grey parrots. They are clever (and cruel to the cat) in their use of the words and phrases they have learned, and show apparent signs of understanding the concept of meanings behind the sounds they are mimicking within human speech. I have a post (#100) from earlier this morning that the OP is tagged in mentioning African Greys, which is awaiting response.

When looking for other examples, I was blown away by the case of Koshik the Asian elephant. Check out what he can do, bypassing his own restrictions in anatomy and biology. Amazing if you ask me.

In conclusion, regardless of the OPs definitions or beliefs, one cannot stand on speech being the differentiating factor between ours and another species' position on some arbitrary hierarchy scale of privilege.

 

[The Hammer]

As soon as I posted, I thought, "Some clever clogs will tell me it is nothing to do with brain size" which I knew

It's ok. I'm trained to hone in on that interpretation, it's something we discussed in Anthropology. No worries

 

[Viker]

Every species has it's unique traits and abilities. None of what is mentioned separates us from animals.