Man to Man... or Woman

[Shadow Wolf]

Your feelings are wrong here also.
I think by now you should realize that what I have been telling you is worth paying attention to, considering seriously, and hopefully, then taking steps in line with the obvious conclusion.

I don't think he's wrong.

 

[nPeace]

And yet the article doesn't actually say what you said. The article says:



And then...



So no, the article you cited does not question if medical transition is ever a viable or reasonable option. It questions the wisdom of pushing medical transition as treatment for some young people who may be confused about their gender identity when it is not fully formed, and advocates adopting a neutral middle ground that neither promotes nor discourages medical transition in those patients.

Is that what you're doing? You're just totally neutral, don't see anything wrong with trans people medically transitioning?

What did I say, that the article didn't say?

 

[Left Coast]

What did I say, that the article didn't say?

"...it important to note that there is no general agreement that it is the solution for any trans person."

To repeat the question of mine that you failed to respond to:

Are you adopting a totally neutral stance to medical transition, as the article you linked advocates?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is there a scientific explanation, or have we entered the realm of religious people. How do they know?

We just know. Like other people just know.
As for science, brain exams have confirmed the brains of transgender people look closer to the brain of their identified gender than that of their birth sex.

 

[nPeace]

No, I don't... which is precisely why I wrote that in a free society people should be free to make whatever choices they want, as long as they aren't hurting anyone else. The person in the video was free to make whatever choice they wanted, because it wasn't hurting anyone ELSE. As soon as they realized that their choice was hurting THEM they were free to change their choice. Why would you disagree with that?

I'll ignore your last question, as I don't see how it relate to me, or anything I said, and so don't understand why you asked such a question.
The person in the video is not the only person alive, so I am failing to see why that has become your focus.
The point is, you don't know who is hurting, or being hurt, so to say that something is okay so long as it is not hurting anyone would be meaningless.
It's like me saying, it's okay to drop the bomb, so long as it's not hurting anyone, and I don't have a clue of who may be hurt, whether in the immediate area; a distant area; the near or far future, etc.
I just need a good excuse for dropping the bomb.

 

[nPeace]

"...it important to note that there is no general agreement that it is the solution for any trans person."

To repeat the question of mine that you failed to respond to:

Are you adopting a totally neutral stance to medical transition, as the article you linked advocates?

There is a lack of consensus demonstrated as to the exact nature of the condition. Questions remain for psychiatrists regarding whether gender dysphoria is a normal variation of gender expression, a social construct, a medical disease or a mental illness. If merely a natural variation, it becomes difficult to identify the purpose of or justification for medical intervention.

I already explained myself in this thread.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'll ignore your last question, as I don't see how it relate to me, or anything I said, and so don't understand why you asked such a question.
The person in the video is not the only person alive, so I am failing to see why that has become your focus.
The point is, you don't know who is hurting, or being hurt, so to say that something is okay so long as it is not hurting anyone would be meaningless.
It's like me saying, it's okay to drop the bomb, so long as it's not hurting anyone, and I don't have a clue of who may be hurt, whether in the immediate area; a distant area; the near or far future, etc.
I just need a good excuse for dropping the bomb.

Your "bomb" is more like those tiny paper balls that pop when dropped or rubbed. Nothing big. Nothing new. Nothing thats gonna hurt. Nothing dangerous.

 

[nPeace]

I don't really have a story. I've just always perceived myself as a male, never as a female. This is for as long as I can remember. When I was 2 or 3, I cut my chin while trying to shave my face like my dad, for example. I always saw myself as male in mental images of myself, dreams and hopes. I was beyond a tomboy in terms of how I felt.

Cis people don't understand what trans people are talking about when it comes to how we perceive ourselves because you've never had to question it. Your perception of self, your body and how others treat you are all in alignment. But if you're trans, you know that something is wrong and so we're forced to think about it.

That's impossible!
There is no possible way for one to have always perceive anything... unless of course you are Adam, or Eve... which you are not.
Please don't tell me you were not in your mothers belly either, because I'm not buying that.

There must have been a point in your life beyond the early stages of your life, when certain awareness surfaced. It was not written in your DNA. So do you believe it was written somewhere in your brain?

Something happened at some time. Do you know when?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's impossible!
There is no possible way for one to have always perceive anything... unless of course you are Adam, or Eve... which you are not.
Please don't tell me you were not in your mothers belly either, because I'm not buying that.

There must have been a point in your life beyond the early stages of your life, when certain awareness surfaced. It was not written in your DNA. So do you believe it was written somewhere in your brain?

Something happened at some time. Do you know when?

I don't care what you want to believe. I've perceived myself as male for as long as I can recall. I don't have to justify myself to you. Take it or leave it. I actually don't spend much time thinking about this stuff anymore. I transitioned over a decade ago. I'm just a guy.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Thank you for observing that. I realized the problem, but felt it best to speak in illustrations. From my experience, it's a common trend here - taking things personal when someone has an opinion that they feel ... it seems to me... should not be mentioned in their presence, unless it be what they want to hear. It's so sad, and at the same time it makes you wonder... perhaps they should pay attention to the "demon" talk... but I'm not going there. Not me.
It's easy to lose friends here.
So unless you are willing to say only what they like to hear,

Shutting down freedoms is Satan 101.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

And I really don't care if you do or don't, since the opinion of some stranger on a forum is irrelevant to me. I'm a adult who makes his own healthcare decisions and I'm satisfied with them thus far. Let me know if you ever want to compare beards someday.

Or we can whip them out and see which is bigger.

Wait...

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Or we can whip them out and see which is bigger.

Wait...

Sure, we can do that, too.

 

[Left Coast]

There is a lack of consensus demonstrated as to the exact nature of the condition. Questions remain for psychiatrists regarding whether gender dysphoria is a normal variation of gender expression, a social construct, a medical disease or a mental illness. If merely a natural variation, it becomes difficult to identify the purpose of or justification for medical intervention.

I already explained myself in this thread.

As did I.

Holding an empathic neutral middle ground, which might or might not include medical transition, should not be equated with this. Psychiatrists need to feel empowered to explore the meaning of identity with their patients, treat coexisting mental illness and employ a trauma-informed model of care when appropriate.

This paper makes some odd claims, such as the statement that there are no male-female brain differences (ample neuroscientific research says otherwise, including research on trans people). But even this rather skeptical paper doesn't paint as negative a portrait as you seem to want it to.

And of course, other research has already been posted here showing medical transition is actually helpful to trans folks. Here's the American Medical Association formally opposing insurance companies who would deny HRT or sex reassignment surgery for trans patients when recommended by their doctor, since both have been shown to be effective treatments.

 

[nPeace]

It's to parallel and mirror your trans regret stories. It happens. Just as people like me regret having ever been Christian and wasting their childhood and teens on something that left us miserable and wanting to die. And, hopefully, that it helps you to see the absurdity in applying such a small part of a group to the larger group as a whole.

Myself, it more began as me drifting towards things for girls amd constantly being told no. That began a conflict that worsened as my faith deepened. I've always felt female, but I kept that in denial for a long time. Until I just couldn't keep going on. Now everything's better for (I don't even get drunk anymore).

Thanks for sharing.
You have always...? No. As I told Saint Frankenstein, there is no one on earth that has always felt anything, but Adam and Eve, and I know you ain't Eve, so...

As we grow in the womb, there are things that our brain registers though, and stores in our subconscious. So a soft lullaby our mother sings, or hums, may soothe us. After we are born, we may hear that tune again, and it means a lot to us.
There are things we learn while in the womb. Some shape our lives, and some make us who we are, and what we want to be. Would you agree?

I was going to say good for you on quitting over-drinking, but then I though, I'd better make sure you are happy with that first. Are you happy you stopped getting drunk?
I'm happy for that nonetheless.

 

[Left Coast]

And here's more:

Study Finds Long-Term Mental Health Benefits of Gender-Affirming Surgery for Transgender Individuals

 

[nPeace]

As did I.

Holding an empathic neutral middle ground, which might or might not include medical transition, should not be equated with this. Psychiatrists need to feel empowered to explore the meaning of identity with their patients, treat coexisting mental illness and employ a trauma-informed model of care when appropriate.

This paper makes some odd claims, such as the statement that there are no male-female brain differences (ample neuroscientific research says otherwise, including research on trans people). But even this rather skeptical paper doesn't paint as negative a portrait as you seem to want it to.

And of course, other research has already been posted here showing medical transition is actually helpful to trans folks. Here's the American Medical Association formally opposing insurance companies who would deny HRT or sex reassignment surgery for trans patients when recommended by their doctor, since both have been shown to be effective treatments.

So you are saying you disagree with this?
There is a lack of consensus demonstrated as to the exact nature of the condition. Questions remain for psychiatrists regarding whether gender dysphoria is a normal variation of gender expression, a social construct, a medical disease or a mental illness.
...and why?

 

[nPeace]

You are talking about issues that personally and directly affect us. And you've been bringing up bunk and blatantly biased sources. And you want to dismiss is as "demon talk."
Do you worship your god with that mind?

May I ask, how and in what way it affects you?

 

[Left Coast]

So you are saying you disagree with this?
There is a lack of consensus demonstrated as to the exact nature of the condition. Questions remain for psychiatrists regarding whether gender dysphoria is a normal variation of gender expression, a social construct, a medical disease or a mental illness.
...and why?

Oh, I think "questions remain," that's rather obvious. I disagree with the conclusion that you seem to be trying to draw out of that, that therefore sexual reassignment surgery is never medically appropriate or helpful. Ample evidence shows that you're simply incorrect there. For many trans people, it is helpful.

Do you disagree with the American Medical Association and American Psychiatric Association that the evidence shows that SRS is medically necessary and effective for many trans people? And why?

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

It was to point out you were doing the exact thing you were accusing anither member of. If I got threads confused and mixed up, it happens. Especially when they overlap content.

When a discussion is about the claims made in the Bible - there is no need to say "I believe..." in each and every sentence.

I was not making a claim of "this is truth" but rather "this is what the Bible teaches".

If you had said something like this initially I may not have reported you.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Amd don't you find that a bit odd to check out who exactly liked a post? It doesn't really mean much, and tends to be predictable anyways. And I promise you he's not the only one who agrees with me.

I know Saint Frankenstein is not the only one - the world is full of wannabe dictators.