Man's search for meaning

[HonestJoe]

You know you make it very difficult when you seek challenges to the world view which you suggest that it’s the only thing keeping you alive.

Is there really any purpose to life? Why be honest and charitable? Why follow the golden rule? We came from pond scum and will shortly be a decomposing corpse...does it matter 100 years from now what your life and choices were like?

Would it matter even if there was a purpose in life or some kind of divine creator? Even if they did exist, they’d also need to directly involve us personally and in a manner we can impact to have any practical relevance. I often find some self-focused faith a little arrogant.

As for being honest, charitable and following golden rules, to the extent that any of us do, it’s primarily about making life as pleasant possible right now, primarily on the principle of mutual benefit. Even people who strongly believe in some form of morality-based afterlife tend to have much more immediate and temporal motives for their positive actions and only find excuses or seek redemption for all their negative ones.

Seriously, if we just evolved from scum and rot in the ground ceasing to exist, I can't really find motivation really to live a good life. 100 years from now it won't matter if I lie, steal, hurt others, do drugs, and throw my whole life away.

It would because you’d be even less happy than you are living a moderately good life. Even true self-centred hedonists don’t go out of their way to hurt others or do long-term harm.

 

[Koldo]

Oh...as an atheist I was...now I'm honest and charitable because I believe it pleases the noble spirits

Why do you want to be,out of all things you could be, a pawn ?

 

[LuisDantas]

While it certainly isn't necessary, it sure seems to be useful to billions of people. Aren't they a better judge of what they find personally useful than you?

So it would appear at first glance, but I have very often found people who I sincerely believe to be hindered and even corrupted by their god-beliefs and associated beliefs, so I can't in good faith say that it is always so.

All the more if I consider the effects of those beliefs on the people around them, starting with their progeny.

Seems a bit obtuse to pretend something has no utility simply because you don't like it or don't find it personally useful.

Aye, it does.

 

[joe1776]

Seriously, if we just evolved from scum and rot in the ground ceasing to exist, I can't really find motivation really to live a good life. 100 years from now it won't matter if I lie, steal, hurt others, do drugs, and throw my whole life away.

Does life have a purpose? The word 'purpose' implies a plan, which in turn implies a Creator. An atheist can ask the same question by asking "Does evolution have a direction?" I think it does.

We humans are treating each other better right now than at anytime in the past. That upward moral trend probably began with the origin of our species. The goal of human life is moral progress.

Using the pain and pleasure centers in our evolved brains, nature is training us to become kinder humans by the reward and punishment method. When we act selfishly, at the expense of others, we later suffer the pain of guilt. When we act with the welfare of others in mind, we are rewarded with contentment.

Science has begun to confirm this: Search Darcher Keltner UC Berkley survival of the kindest.

 

[shunyadragon]

You were expecting something from Viktor Frankl? . Nope

So let's say there is no creator and a great explosion lead to perfectly round planets, billions of stars and pond scum that became a fish, that became an amphibian, then a reptile, a mammal, an ape, and eventually you. There is no reason for it to happen really.

Really?!?!?! Even though I am a Theist, there are natural reasons that lead to this scenario. Now does the natural scenario determine that it necessarily must happen? No.

Is there really any purpose to life? Why be honest and charitable? Why follow the golden rule? We came from pond scum and will shortly be a decomposing corpse...does it matter 100 years from now what your life and choices were like?

Why do the majority of these evolved chimps worship a God of some sort? Perhaps they see how meaningless life is without faith in a Creator?

Your asking theological/philosophical questions 'why?,' shades of Intelligent Design,' which cannot be answered by objective verifiable evidence. Each of the many diverse religious and philosophical beliefs of the world may answer these questions differently.

The bottom line is the scientific explanation of how evolution takes place gives an adequate explanation for how humans evolved, but cannot answer your 'why?' questions.

Seriously, if we just evolved from scum and rot in the ground ceasing to exist, I can't really find motivation really to live a good life. 100 years from now it won't matter if I lie, steal, hurt others, do drugs, and throw my whole life away.

Seriously, simply the natural course of evolution, and the matter of fact nature of being human is fact we have to deal with and does not necessarily need a metaphysical explanation. In reality the explanation from the traditional Christian perspective is the worst most unlikely scenario to answer the metaphysical question 'why?'

 

[shunyadragon]

If I go back to atheism it is drugs, jails, institutions, and jumping off another building... I can't survive without faith...but I admire those who can

The drugs, jails, institutions, suicides and violence of society exist as a matter of fact, and will not change if you stick your head in sand of faith.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's fine to search for meaning.
But it's better to not care.

 

[Polymath257]

You were expecting something from Viktor Frankl? . Nope

So let's say there is no creator and a great explosion lead to perfectly round planets, billions of stars and pond scum that became a fish, that became an amphibian, then a reptile, a mammal, an ape, and eventually you. There is no reason for it to happen really.

Is there really any purpose to life? Why be honest and charitable? Why follow the golden rule? We came from pond scum and will shortly be a decomposing corpse...does it matter 100 years from now what your life and choices were like?

Why do the majority of these evolved chimps worship a God of some sort? Perhaps they see how meaningless life is without faith in a Creator?

Seriously, if we just evolved from scum and rot in the ground ceasing to exist, I can't really find motivation really to live a good life. 100 years from now it won't matter if I lie, steal, hurt others, do drugs, and throw my whole life away.

There are a lot of different questions here.

First of all, I get meaning out of life by living it. I get out and experience what it has to offer. I spend time with friends and loved ones. I read and learn, I teach and explore. To me, *that* is the meaning of life.

A candle has value even if it goes out. That I won't be around in 100 years is irrelevant to me. I am here, now, and experiencing what I can. That the flame goes out doesn't mean I can't shine brightly.

Now, what confuses me is why a creator or spirits would add any meaning to life. I mean, suppose we are created by some supernatural entity. So what? Why should that give me any more or less meaning for life? if anything, having an eternal life after this one seems like it would devalue the specialness of life in general. I mean, let's face it, if you can't handle here and now, why do you think it would be any better in an afterlife?

As for living a 'good life', drugs and hurting others, and other such things only *prevent* happiness in life. They make us worse, partly because we are a social species where compassion is an ingrained sense. To hide that with drugs and violence only makes life worse, not better. Instead, learn to love, to grow, and to *really* experience all that this short life has to offer. That is where meaning comes from. To me, at least.

 

[Spiderman]

Because doing those things makes you desperately unhappy. Do you want to be happy?

Trying to do the bidding of spirits/gods, etcetera is cowardly. It means you don't want any responsibility, and anything that happens to you is attributable to others.

Making your own choices and living a good like that you want, without all that, means that you take responsibility for your own life, and no despotic god-concepts are going to stand in your way. That's heroic. That's brave.

I know you can't let it go right away. . . But start seeing yourself as having power. . . agency. . . control.

Imagine helping someone else right now. Did you help them because some all-powerful being commanded it and you might get rewarded? Or did you help them because you wanted to cause the world around you be a little better than it was?

Which is a better reason to help others and be a better person?

Yes, it feels good to be good to others... I will do so regardless of whether it pleases any spirits

 

[Polymath257]

For me if I had a gun I would just blow my brains out if I knew there was no Spirits or God to please and no afterlife... I jumped off a building and broke multiple bones in a suicide attempt... lets just say it's a good thing I don't have firearms and good I'm not atheist anymore

What difference do spirits and an afterlife make in this? How would the existence of either make things any better? if anything, I would see them as making life of *less* value not more. And, like I said, why would you expect anything to be better in an afterlife? if you can't handle a scant 80+ years of this life, why do you think an eternity in an afterlife would be better?

 

[Polymath257]

If I go back to atheism it is drugs, jails, institutions, and jumping off another building... I can't survive without faith...but I admire those who can

I see, so without a belief in a deity, you would turn to self-destruction? How does *that* follow? Seriously, it doesn't make any sense to me. If anything, if the afterlife is promised to be so wonderful, isn't it better just to get to it? Not that I am suggesting you do this, mind you. For me, a guaranteed wonderful afterlife would be the reason to be self-destructive and the finiteness of our current existence a good reason to be as good as possible to maximize what is available.

 

[Polymath257]

Yes, it feels good to be good to others... I will do so regardless of whether it pleases any spirits

Good. That's a start. You realize there is meaning outside of spirits and deities. Think about that a bit.

 

[Spiderman]

I see, so without a belief in a deity, you would turn to self-destruction? How does *that* follow? Seriously, it doesn't make any sense to me. If anything, if the afterlife is promised to be so wonderful, isn't it better just to get to it? Not that I am suggesting you do this, mind you. For me, a guaranteed wonderful afterlife would be the reason to be self-destructive and the finiteness of our current existence a good reason to be as good as possible to maximize what is available.

I'm just honest and charitable because I believe it pleases God and spirits. For instance, when I relapsed on drugs, I didn't have to be honest with my probation officer, because those drugs didn't show up in a urinalysis. I was honest with my probation officer about abusing drugs and violating probation and risking going back to jail, because I believe God rewards honesty.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You were expecting something from Viktor Frankl? . Nope

So let's say there is no creator and a great explosion lead to perfectly round planets, billions of stars and pond scum that became a fish, that became an amphibian, then a reptile, a mammal, an ape, and eventually you. There is no reason for it to happen really.

Is there really any purpose to life? Why be honest and charitable? Why follow the golden rule? We came from pond scum and will shortly be a decomposing corpse...does it matter 100 years from now what your life and choices were like?

Why do the majority of these evolved chimps worship a God of some sort? Perhaps they see how meaningless life is without faith in a Creator?

Seriously, if we just evolved from scum and rot in the ground ceasing to exist, I can't really find motivation really to live a good life. 100 years from now it won't matter if I lie, steal, hurt others, do drugs, and throw my whole life away.

You think people who live in such a fashion find peace?
Live unselfishly for the most selfish of reasons. A good night's sleep.

 

[Augustus]

So it would appear at first glance, but I have very often found people who I sincerely believe to be hindered and even corrupted by their god-beliefs and associated beliefs, so I can't in good faith say that it is always so.

All the more if I consider the effects of those beliefs on the people around them, starting with their progeny.

That something isn't 100% beneficial doesn't negate the fact that it can be useful though. I doubt there is a belief system in existence that has no potential flaws.

Denying utility based on something being less than 100% effective makes little sense. Especially given the mountains of evidence that it does indeed benefit many people.

 

[David T]

You were expecting something from Viktor Frankl? . Nope

So let's say there is no creator and a great explosion lead to perfectly round planets, billions of stars and pond scum that became a fish, that became an amphibian, then a reptile, a mammal, an ape, and eventually you. There is no reason for it to happen really.

Is there really any purpose to life? Why be honest and charitable? Why follow the golden rule? We came from pond scum and will shortly be a decomposing corpse...does it matter 100 years from now what your life and choices were like?

Why do the majority of these evolved chimps worship a God of some sort? Perhaps they see how meaningless life is without faith in a Creator?

Seriously, if we just evolved from scum and rot in the ground ceasing to exist, I can't really find motivation really to live a good life. 100 years from now it won't matter if I lie, steal, hurt others, do drugs, and throw my whole life away.

You are imposing your meaning of life onto life how is that not southern baptist? Hell pope you might as well say you are going to hell without jesus.

 

[atanu]

Does life have a purpose? The word 'purpose' implies a plan, which in turn implies a Creator. An atheist can ask the same question by asking "Does evolution have a direction?" I think it does.

We humans are treating each other better right now than at anytime in the past. That upward moral trend probably began with the origin of our species. The goal of human life is moral progress.

Using the pain and pleasure centers in our evolved brains, nature is training us to become kinder humans by the reward and punishment method. When we act selfishly, at the expense of others, we later suffer the pain of guilt. When we act with the welfare of others in mind, we are rewarded with contentment.

Science has begun to confirm this: Search Darcher Keltner UC Berkley survival of the kindest.

Trying to be kind, fearing punishment or seeking reward is compulsion -- it is karma.

OTOH, realising that the same river runs through us all gives rise to unconditional love from the core of our being, which is god.

 

[joe1776]

Trying to be kind, fearing punishment or seeking reward is compulsion -- it is karma.

OTOH, realising that the same river runs through us all gives rise to unconditional love from the core of our being, which is god.

I think of humanity's long-term trend of moral progress as a river and swimming with the current makes life easier.

 

[osgart]

You were expecting something from Viktor Frankl? . Nope

So let's say there is no creator and a great explosion lead to perfectly round planets, billions of stars and pond scum that became a fish, that became an amphibian, then a reptile, a mammal, an ape, and eventually you. There is no reason for it to happen really.

Is there really any purpose to life? Why be honest and charitable? Why follow the golden rule? We came from pond scum and will shortly be a decomposing corpse...does it matter 100 years from now what your life and choices were like?

Why do the majority of these evolved chimps worship a God of some sort? Perhaps they see how meaningless life is without faith in a Creator?

Seriously, if we just evolved from scum and rot in the ground ceasing to exist, I can't really find motivation really to live a good life. 100 years from now it won't matter if I lie, steal, hurt others, do drugs, and throw my whole life away.

Now imagine if all people chose to live this way. There's be nothing. No science, no technology, no homes. We would be like a pack of starving wolves, beating our chests at the tearing of flesh. Of course wolves don't beat their chests, but we'd be mighty proud savages because we can.

The temporal advantages of being good is without question innumerable.

But I empathize with wanting desperately eternal meaning, and significance. Which is one of the quests of religion.

This temporality life , without eternal life, is the treasure of many. It is the utopic dream. And like it or not, virtue holds the success of it all together. Where would we want to be as people without trustworthiness or something or someone to love.

Now perhaps we are all still bloodthirsty savages, held together by the fear of not being good. Or we evolved to recognize that goodness equals quality of life, and we are all held together by the fear of living without goodness, and we manage to comply with it.

If this is all there is, wouldn't you rather make heaven of it?

I myself think the truth of goodness leads somewhere. But if it dont, I sure as hell would rather die without goodness in the world. And goodness is the reason my civil arse desires to live at all.

So here we all are burning in heaven and hell temporal. Make of it what you will. I love goodness and virtue, even if it's only fleeting. Those Greeks were really on to something with discovering virtue.