Many many Chariot wheels found at bottom of Red sea.

[walt]

That's fine I believe your way is 2 +2 = 0

if two people are standing 20 feet apart, the distance would be 20 feet between them. without the need of the word orbit.

This is why these conversations go nowhere just arguments over words worthless.

We should be able to talk at a level higher than the third grader. If we were both awarded $10,000 to communicate about a hard subject, I think we would instantly be able to communicate. But that's not going to happen is it?

 

[ppp]

Why can't we all just agree to disagree please?

Would you not agree that we are disagreeing with you?

 

[servant1]

Places and events are common knowledge.
Many real places and events in new York City are mentioned in Spider Man comics. Is this evidence that Spider Man is real?

It's the miracles of Christ that point to His divinity, but these cannot be objectively verified.

There are 4 gospels that match. 3 were eyewitnesses, Luke spoke to eyewitnesses.

 

[ppp]

There are 4 gospels that match. 3 were eyewitnesses, Luke spoke to eyewitnesses.

None of the gospels were eyewitnesses. Arguably Peter was an eye witness. And only 1 Peter

 

[Valjean]

Honestly if you can't recognize it would take a God, for the sun and earth to stay at this perfect distance. What's the point of any conversation?

Why? Do you believe the planets would fly off in all directions without the intervention of some intentional, supernatural force?

Stars have planets. Many planets orbit at a distance that will create temperatures that will support the sort of carbon based life we're familiar with. Planets usually have pretty stable orbits -- because of the orbits, mass and velocity you discount. Any planets with unstable or perturbed orbits break up, fly off into space or crash into their star. So we're left with big balls of matter behaving exactly as physics dictates.

As for the likelihood of life like our own developing, how can one calculate it, with a sample size of one? What we do know is that life appeared on Earth almost as soon as it cooled sufficiently to support it. We also see prebiotic molecules like amino acids in meteorites, so components of life are known to form in extraterrestrial environments.

Do you think life is some extraordinary, vanishingly unlikely, superntural phenomenon? This may be the picture the Bible paints, but it's not a conclusion that can be drawn from physics or chemistry. No matter how detailed an examination we make of life, molecules and natural chemical interactions are all we find.

 

[Valjean]

There are 4 gospels that match. 3 were eyewitnesses, Luke spoke to eyewitnesses.

There are dozens of gospels, but even the four chosen for inclusion by early church leaders do not quite match. None are signed, and the first editions published were unattributed. The evangelists' names were added later, probably to add credibility. All four were written several generations after the fact.
No eyewitness to Jesus are known. The information we have are the various, apocryphal gospel stories, and narratives like Josephus', written about the Christians and their beliefs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's fine I believe your way is 2 +2 = 0

That is because you are scientifically illiterate. You have to keep yourself that way to maintain your beliefs. I can show you that with your beliefs you are claiming that God is a liar. If God is not a liar then Genesis cannot be read literally. It still works as a series of morality tales, fables, etc.. Tools for teaching children the concept of faith. They do not work as history.

One has to be scientifically illiterate to believe those stories. Or else one has to be an incredible liar. There are a very small handful of scientists that understand the sciences and still believe the Genesis myths. But whenever they debate it is easy to show that they are lying. They make errors that they have to know are wrong. Some of them actively look for ways to lie. I know, it makes no sense. But they seem to think that lying for Jesus actually helps him when I think that it hurts the 'Christian beliefs in the long run.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

I was talking about Jesus parables and that he reveals all things to his disciples in private. I agree with you the bread is figurative for his body and the wine is figurative for his blood.

Would you agree Jesus spoke of Old Testament things?

Would you agree the words bread, and wine, and flesh, and blood, can be found many times in the Old Testament?

Would you agree that Jesus was speaking of the Old Testament words bread and wine, flesh and blood?
Or do you think what Jesus said has nothing to do with the words in the Old Testament.

 

[CG Didymus]

That distance is described by our orbit. What do you think that distance is? Do you not even know what an orbit is?

Somewhere in this thread I asked about the Sun stopping in the sky. How silly of ;you to think there is not a God. How else could the Sun stop and the Earth keep turning and the day get extended long enough for God's people to kill more of the enemy.

And even if you claim, falsely, that it was really the Earth that stood still, that is even a greater miracle. Only God could have kept everything in place as the Earth suddenly stopped. Did anyone feel it happen? No, because God made it unnoticeable. The only thing people knew was that the daylight lasted longer that day.... about a full day.

Then everything went back to normal. So, from a midday position it set for a short time, and then rose again at the usual time. Causing his people to get a full nights sleep in a few minutes.

Or actually, maybe he let the Earth keep turning and made the Sun move at the same speed.... making it appear that it had stopped. But again... who but God could have done that? You guys have to start using your brains logically. Without a God... This could not have happened. Therefore, there is a God.

So, let's add all this up... The stopped equals one thing. Plus maybe the Earth stopped. Then maybe the Sun just started moving at a speed that matched the speed the Earth was turning. Yeah, add that up. Add it's like seven things God did, right? One plus one plus one? Yeah, seven things.

I'd like to stay and chat more, but I'm late to my Christian snake-handling service. You know, because in the gospel of Mark is says we shall be able to handle snakes and not be harmed. Now one of our congregation did get bit and died last week. But that's because he took his eyes off the Lord for a minute.

That's all the time the devil needed. Satan put the seed of doubt in his heart and told him, "You know that chapter 16 of Mark isn't in the oldest manuscripts." But we know that's a lie.

And we know that's a lie, because then how would we be able to handle snakes without being bitten if it wasn't written in the genuine Word of God? That's like 5 things we know are true. God stopped the Sun and God's Word is genuine. Oh, and don't let the devil try and trick you into doubting. So, that makes 9 things.

Anyway brother, I'll be praying for you tonight so that you'll someday see the truth just like me. And you'll quit trusting those no good scientists.

 

[walt]

of

Jesus and the Apostles quote the Old Testament quite a bit.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus and the Apostles quote the Old Testament quite a bit.

Or rather the writers of the Gospels did that.

 

[Valjean]

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17 New King James Version

I believe a lot of information in life is useful, but first and foremost I believe the words and direction in the Bible before anything else, and I try to stay busy on all the words in the Bible not the words, theories or concepts that are not in the Bible.

But why do you believe these Biblical narratives? Do you also believe the Norse or Egyptian narratives? Is there more objective evidence for one than the others?
What about those biblical stories that are clearly erroneous or non-historical? Shouldn't confidence be indexed to quality of evidence, rather than tradition or popular mythology? Isn't there more observable, tested, objective evidence for many of these non-biblical 'theories and concepts'?

 

[walt]

But why do you believe these Biblical narratives? Do you also believe the Norse or Egyptian narratives? Is there more objective evidence for one than the others?
What about those biblical stories that are clearly erroneous or non-historical? Shouldn't confidence be indexed to quality of evidence, rather than tradition or popular mythology? Isn't there more observable, tested, objective evidence for many of these non-biblical 'theories and concepts'?

I feel you are wasting your time with me, I don't believe in Egyptian narratives either. sorry I wish I could agree with you in something.

 

[ppp]

I feel you are wasting your time with me, I don't believe in Egyptian narratives either. sorry I wish I could agree with you in something.

One would think that whatever you believed, you would be able to answer his questions. Your beliefs appear to be only for show. Lacking any substance or conviction.

 

[Valjean]

No matter how anybody slices it, the Bible gives me instruction superior to anything else. That's just my take on it, you have your own take.

Seriously?! Read it. It advocates all sorts of atrocities and injustice, and it's moral lessons are often terrible.
I can give examples, if you want.

Granted, there are sections like the beatitudes that seem very nice (and which few adhere to, in my observation) but there are also mandates and approved behaviors that are atrocious by contemporary standards.

The same way you do it, what makes better sense to you, is what I do, what makes better sense to me.

What makes sense to one person is trash for another person vice versa.

That's not how I do it at all. I critically analyze and fact-check.
What makes sense is usually what's familiar, not what's true, not what conforms to observed reality or testing.

People accepted what makes sense for thousands of years: flat Earth, Sun circling Earth, rotting meat generating flies, heavy objects falling faster than light ones, disease caused by curses, bad air, or divine disapproval, &al. It was an intellectual dark age. Humanity's great intellectual leap forward occurred when we abandoned what makes sense and began questioning and testing our presumptions.

Lots of reality makes no sense. Modern physics makes no sense, and much of it seems quite impossible -- yet it works.

Believe what is well evidenced and reasonable. Be skeptical of tradition and what makes sense.

 

[walt]

Seriously?! Read it. It advocates all sorts of atrocities and injustice, and it's moral lessons are often terrible.
I can give examples, if you want.

Granted, there are sections like the beatitudes that seem very nice (and which few adhere to, in my observation) but there are also mandates and approved behaviors that are atrocious by contemporary standards.



That's not how I do it at all.
What makes sense is usually what's familiar, not what's true, not what conforms to observed reality or testing.

People accepted what makes sense for thousands of years: flat Earth, Sun circling Earth, rotting meat generating flies, heavy objects falling faster than light ones, disease caused by curses, bad air, or divine disapproval, &al. It was an intellectual dark age. Humanity's great intellectual leap forward occurred when we abandoned what makes sense and began questioning and testing our presumptions.

Lots of reality makes no sense. Modern physics makes no sense, and much of it seems quite impossible -- yet it works.

Believe what is well evidenced and reasonable. Be skeptical of tradition and what makes sense.

Google says there are 10,000 religions in the world, why so many? And it seems like every religion has angels that gives sacred information..

 

[Valjean]

I am not talking about or orbit, I am talking about the distance between the sun and the earth.

That's what an orbit is.
Lots of planets lie in a habitable zone. There is nothing extraordinary about such a location, and there's nothing remarkable about planets staying in a particular orbit for a billions of years.
Moreover, what's habitable for our kind of life might be lethal to another sort of life. Life evolves to fit the conditions at hand. The conditions aren't "designed" for any particular sort of creature.
Even here on Earth, there are creatures that thrive in boiling water, freezing water, acid pH, and without oxygen; creatures that would die in conditions we need to survive -- and this is familiar, carbon based, DNA coded life like us.

 

[Valjean]

Google says there are 10,000 religions in the world, why so many? And it seems like every religion has angels that gives sacred information..

Some do, some don't. Many supernatural beings aren't particularly concerned with humans and their goings on.

There are many religions because people are intellectually lazy. They blindly accept what they're taught and make no attempt do test the claims, discern the truth, or otherwise rock the boat. They're not really interested in what's true. They go along to get along.

Science approaches truth quite differently, questions everything and achieves universal consensus.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Jesus and the Apostles quote the Old Testament quite a bit.

Yeah, Jesus quoted OT, Muhammad quoted OT and Bible, and Bahaollah quoted OT, Bible and Qur'an. It is a 2,000 year old scam which is still going on.

Google says there are 10,000 religions in the world, why so many? And it seems like every religion has angels that gives sacred information..

God and his reward and punishment is a collective misinformation that societies created to keep people in order. Atheists know that they can be humane even without it. Very much like 'jujus' that mothers create to keep children in order 'Don't do that, otherwise the Juju will be angry'.

 

[Valjean]

Why can't we all just agree to disagree please?

Because that would shut down RF!
I thought we were here because we were interested in others' ideas, interested in truth and learning things.
We learn truth by critically examining claims -- otherwise we'd end up with 10,000 different claims and no clue as to which, if any, were true.

Personally I'm here to learn, and I want to know what's true vs what's not. I assumed, by your presence here, that you were also interested in truth. But uncritically accepting whatever you're told, or agreeing to disagree, isn't a way to truth. You find truth by looking for flaws in claims.