"Many U.S. Catholics Question Their Membership Amid Scandal"

[Skwim]

.

Seems Catholicism is on the skids.

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- As the Catholic church responds to more allegations of sexual abuse of young people by priests, an increasing percentage of Catholics are re-examining their commitment to the religion. Thirty-seven percent of U.S. Catholics, up from 22% in 2002, say news of the abuse has led them to question whether they would remain in the church.

Substantial minorities of both practicing and nonpracticing Catholics say they are questioning their commitment to the church -- but, as might be expected, those less committed to their religion are more likely to be questioning it. Whereas 46% of Catholics who seldom or never attend church say they have questioned whether they would remain in the faith, 37% of those who attend church on a monthly basis and 22% who attend weekly say the same.
source
​

37% is a substantial "nothing to sneeze at" number of people. It amounts to 26,052,447* registered Catholics, which is a 68% increase over the last 15 years. OUCH!




*As of 2016 there were 70,412,021 registered Catholics in the United States.
Source: Wikipedia

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[Altfish]

I'm surprised only that the figures are so low.

 

[SomeRandom]

I don’t blame any Catholic for still going to Church. But if I were a Catholic parent, I probably wouldn’t go near Catholic run youth groups for a while.

 

[wellwisher]

There are three thing one needs to keep in mind. Firstly, the abuse has been amplified, using the news template, which blows things out of proportion to help sell news and gain market share. The analogy is if a jet airliner crashes the media will make the impression every jet is about to fall out of the sky.

Secondly, the vast majority of the abuse was homosexual in nature, even though news will not frame it this way. If was mostly connected to gay behavior; male/male, with very little, in proportion, in terms of lesbian or heterosexual abuse.

Thirdly, the fake news media is behaving homophonic, by turning on the Catholic Church, since the Church turned out to be one of the first defenders of homosexuality in the modern era. Now it is taboo to defend gays in the church.

 

[Altfish]

There are three thing one needs to keep in mind. Firstly, the abuse has been amplified, using the news template, which blows things out of proportion to help sell news and gain market share. The analogy is if a jet airliner crashes the media will make the impression every jet is about to fall out of the sky.

Secondly, the vast majority of the abuse was homosexual in nature, even though news will not frame it this way. If was mostly connected to gay behavior; male/male, with very little, in proportion, in terms of lesbian or heterosexual abuse.

Thirdly, the fake news media is behaving homophonic, by turning on the Catholic Church, since the Church turned out to be one of the first defenders of homosexuality in the modern era. Now it is taboo to defend gays in the church.

So what...

The biggest problem is/was the cover up. The reputation of the church was put before the welfare of children.
That is abhorrent and shows that at the top the church is rotten.

Luckily, it seems to be backfiring on the church and their wickedness is being exposed.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There are three thing one needs to keep in mind. Firstly, the abuse has been amplified, using the news template, which blows things out of proportion to help sell news and gain market share. The analogy is if a jet airliner crashes the media will make the impression every jet is about to fall out of the sky.

Not every jet; more like about 7%.

And in the analogy, the airline has known about the problems basically forever, but covered them up instead of doing something about them.

 

[Glaurung]

I don’t blame any Catholic for still going to Church. But if I were a Catholic parent, I probably wouldn’t go near Catholic run youth groups for a while.

I don't have the numbers on hand, but if I recall correctly the abuse rates were at their height during the sixties and seventies. Although it in no way exonerates the Church, Billy is (and always was) far more likely to be molested by uncle Bob than he is by any given Catholic priest.

 

[PruePhillip]

.
Seems Catholicism is on the skids.
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- As the Catholic church responds to more allegations of sexual abuse ….

Do Catholics "question their membership" because of the current "scandal"?
Sure. Catholics always question their membership.
Wish I had a 1900 to current graph on hand of Catholic membership - it shows
a non-stop slide. There is nothing on any attendance graph which shows the
current scandal, though it has gone on for over a generation now.
In fact, Catholics haven't slid as much as Protestants.
Truth be told - Catholics expect more of their priests, and a lot less from
themselves these days. And that goes for society in general.

Note my Gallop Poll figures below.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do Catholics "question their membership" because of the current "scandal"?
Sure. Catholics always question their membership.
Wish I had a 1900 to current graph on hand of Catholic membership - it shows
a non-stop slide. There is nothing on any attendance graph which shows the
current scandal, though it has gone on for over a generation now.
In fact, Catholics haven't slid as much as Protestants.
Truth be told - Catholics expect more of their priests, and a lot less from
themselves these days. And that goes for society in general.

Note my Gallop Poll figures below.


View attachment 27550

What's that graph showing, and why is the scale different for Catholics and Protestants?

 

[Stevicus]

.

Seems Catholicism is on the skids.

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- As the Catholic church responds to more allegations of sexual abuse of young people by priests, an increasing percentage of Catholics are re-examining their commitment to the religion. Thirty-seven percent of U.S. Catholics, up from 22% in 2002, say news of the abuse has led them to question whether they would remain in the church.

Substantial minorities of both practicing and nonpracticing Catholics say they are questioning their commitment to the church -- but, as might be expected, those less committed to their religion are more likely to be questioning it. Whereas 46% of Catholics who seldom or never attend church say they have questioned whether they would remain in the faith, 37% of those who attend church on a monthly basis and 22% who attend weekly say the same.
source​

37% is a substantial "nothing to sneeze at" number of people. It amounts to 26,052,447* registered Catholics, which is a 68% increase over the last 15 years. OUCH!




*As of 2016 there were 70,412,021 registered Catholics in the United States.
Source: Wikipedia

.

I questioned my membership long before the scandal broke, although the Church's reputation for abusive behavior has been around a long time. My mother went to 12 years of Catholic school, and as a result of the abusive behavior she received, she made sure that neither my brother nor I would ever go to Catholic school.

 

[pearl]

We ought not to equate homosexuality with pedophilia as homosexuals exist in all walks of life they also exist in the Church who are no more a pedophile than are the majority of heterosexuals.

There are three thing one needs to keep in mind. Firstly, the abuse has been amplified,

ONE is too many.

The analogy is if a jet airliner crashes the media will make the impression every jet is about to fall out of the sky.

In light of recent developments the news media was spot on. I will grant that some in the news media thrive on the exploitation, especially of the Catholic Church.

I don't have the numbers on hand, but if I recall correctly the abuse rates were at their height during the sixties and seventies.

It has been a problem since the beginning, within the church and within society. The focus now is on those with the authority to cover it up and did.

37% is a substantial "nothing to sneeze at" number of people. It amounts to 26,052,447* registered Catholics, which is a 68% increase over the last 15 years. OUCH!

There are a number of reasons for the decrease in attendance across denominations and coincides with the growth of Atheism.

 

[PruePhillip]

What's that graph showing, and why is the scale different for Catholics and Protestants?

It's showing the terminal decline in American (Europe is worse) religion.
If you could get that graph to show up to 2019 you WOULDN'T SEE
THE EFFECT OF CHILD ABUSE CASES.
Fact is - religion is in decline. Child abuse from about 3-4% of Catholic
clergy isn't going to budge that graph.

 

[bobhikes]

I don’t blame any Catholic for still going to Church. But if I were a Catholic parent, I probably wouldn’t go near Catholic run youth groups for a while.

Actually the catholic youth groups today are safer than the boy scouts. All of the scandals in the US have been in the past and the Catholic church has made changes. All catholic youth instructor's in my district go through a yearly police background check and go through what I would call sensitivity training. I'm in the district of Metuchen in NJ and I'm told most districts in the church are similar in NJ. I applied to be an CCD instructor and got fed up with all the rules and regulations and paperwork, so never taught a class. For the boy scouts I filled out one form the first year with no finger prints, no training and was a club leader for 3 years until my son left.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's showing the terminal decline in American (Europe is worse) religion.

Actually, it's showing two lines going down on a unitless, unlabelled scale.

Let me rephrase: what's the dependent variable in the graph?

For Protestants, you have 43 in 1960. 43 of what? Adherents who attend services regularly? Who say that they're proud of their religion? Who beep their horn when they pass a sign saying "honk if you love your church?"

 

[metis]

Here, within the Archdiocese of Detroit, this issue is being addressed literally every weekend, both in our church paper and regularly at the pulpit, and the directions to the congregation is that any suspicion of abuse should be immediately reported to the civil authorities, plus any clergy or other personnel within the church must report it as well.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Here, within the Archdiocese of Detroit, this issue is being addressed literally every weekend, both in our church paper and regularly at the pulpit, and the directions to the congregation is that any suspicion of abuse should be immediately reported to the civil authorities, plus any clergy or other personnel within the church must report it as well.

Irish bishops tried to implement a policy like this, but in a 1997 secret letter, the Vatican stopped them. The Vatican asserted that the policy violated canon law, so the Irish bishops stopped following the policy but kept it in place publicly.

Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse

Has canon law changed on this point since 1997?

 

[metis]

Irish bishops tried to implement a policy like this, but in a 1997 secret letter, the Vatican stopped them. The Vatican asserted that the policy violated canon law, so the Irish bishops stopped following the policy but kept it in place publicly.

Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse

Has canon law changed on this point since 1997?

Procedural changes were made in 2002 but have been much more strengthened in the last couple of years, including a strongly-worded Vatican directive just a couple of weeks ago.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Procedural changes were made in 2002 but have been much more strengthened in the last couple of years, including a strongly-worded Vatican directive just a couple of weeks ago.

But did this actually change canon law?

 

[pearl]

But did this actually change canon law?

https://www.catholicsforrenewal.org/Documents 2016/CanonLawOnChildAbuseThruTheAges.pdf

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

https://www.catholicsforrenewal.org/Documents 2016/CanonLawOnChildAbuseThruTheAges.pdf

IOW, "no, but there has been a worldwide dispensation from the law since 2010?"

BTW: that paper makes it sound like posession of child pornography and sexual abuse of disabled adults is still protected by secrecy.