Martin Shkreli jailed after Facebook post about Hillary Clinton

[Revoltingest]

Legally worse?

AFAIK, offering to pay someone to commit an assault.

An offer to buy a strand of hair doesn't suggest assault to me.
But even if someone did pluck a hair off the shoulder of her pantsuit,
to call this "assault" is a stretch.
To hope Trump is assassinated is even more certainly not assault,
but since it might encourage something far deadlier than theft of a
hair. Such encouragement looks worse to me.

And we must remember that the perp in the OP was out of jail on bail.
He wasn't jailed just because of the offer, but largely due to circumstances.

 

[Augustus]

An offer to buy a strand of hair doesn't suggest assault to me.

“On HRC’s book tour, try to grab a hair from her... Will pay $5,000 per hair obtained from Hillary Clinton” could certainly be construed as soliciting assault.

If you are out on bail, relying on being given the benefit of the doubt is not a prudent strategy given that the burden of proof is pretty much reversed.

To hope Trump is assassinated is even more certainly not assault,
but since it might encourage something far deadlier than theft of a
hair. Such encouragement looks worse to me.

But not in the eyes of the law.

And we must remember that the perp in the OP was out of jail on bail.
He wasn't jailed just because of the offer, but largely due to circumstances.

His bail was revoked for breaking the law whilst on bail.

I imagine had he merely hoped HRC would be assassinated he would not have had his bail revoked as he wouldn't have broken the law.

 

[Twilight Hue]

He isn't being jailed for this, he is having his bail revoked for breaking the law whilst on bail.

Ic. Should have read a little bit more thoroughly.

 

[Revoltingest]

“On HRC’s book tour, try to grab a hair from her... Will pay $5,000 per hair obtained from Hillary Clinton” could certainly be construed as soliciting assault.

I must be too peaceful to see the soliciting of assault.
If I thought he were serious, & if I were near her, I'd just take one which fell out naturally.

 

[leibowde84]

What do you make of this?

Martin Shkreli jailed after Facebook post about Hillary Clinton

Should he have been jailed for this? Did he really overstep the boundaries of free speech?

Yes. If he wasn't out on bail and under court supervision, then it might be questionable. But, he offered $5,000 for his followers to cut off Hillary Clinton's hair against her will. Inciting people to physically assault another person is not protected under the 1st Amendment.

 

[leibowde84]

Why do you think this counts as solicitation for assault?

He specifically offered $5,000 to his followers if they cut off Clinton's hair against her will. That is pretty much the definition of solicitation for assault.

 

[leibowde84]

I think that judges have entirely too much power in this country. Appeals courts should automatically review each decision by a federal judge the day after making a judgement to keep them honest. A federal judge can pretty much do whatever they want and that isn't right or acceptable to me.

This seems like a pretty straight forward one though. The 1st amendment does not protect speech like this. He broke the law while he was out on bail. So, now he's going to jail. Pretty easy choice.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes. If he wasn't out on bail and under court supervision, then it might be questionable. But, he offered $5,000 for his followers to cut off Hillary Clinton's hair against her will. Inciting people to physically assault another person is not protected under the 1st Amendment.

Here's the offending text I found on line....
"So on HRC's book tour, try to grab a hair from her... Will pay $5,000 per hair obtained."

 

[DavidFirth]

This seems like a pretty straight forward one though. The 1st amendment does not protect speech like this. He broke the law while he was out on bail. So, now he's going to jail. Pretty easy choice.

Maybe you're right but I don't really have the desire to search out all the details of this case so I really can't say.

The fact that you feel that way carries weight with me even though I don't always agree with many of the stances you take for religious reasons.

 

[leibowde84]

Here's the offending text I found on line....
"So on HRC's book tour, try to grab a hair from her... Will pay $5,000 per hair obtained."

Yep. Pretty clear that can be seen as solicitation of assault.

 

[leibowde84]

Maybe you're right but I don't really have the desire to search out all the details of this case so I really can't say.

The fact that you feel that way carries weight with me even though I don't always agree with many of the stances you take for religious reasons.

Not too hard to look at the details. You just have to consider 1) he is out on bail for fraud charges, and 2) look at the tweet in question. It seems to clearly be solicitation for assault of another person.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yep. Pretty clear that can be seen as solicitation of assault.

Opinions will vary.
Would a reasonable person believe that he'd actually give them $5000?
I don't think so.

 

[leibowde84]

Opinions will vary.
Would a reasonable person believe that he'd actually give them $5000?
I don't think so.

Reasonable person? That is an extremely subjective idea. I'd say that it is clear that at least some of his followers would have taken him seriously.

I think the real question is this: Is it possible that his followers might take him seriously? Remember, he's out on bail under court supervision, so, obviously enough, they were watching his social media closely.

 

[Revoltingest]

Reasonable person? That is an extremely subjective term. I'd say that it is clear that at least some of his followers would have taken him seriously.

Of course it's subjective.

This is always a problem. I remember when a gal was arrested for telling Bill
Clinton "You suck, & those boys died." Authorities decided that was a threat too.
And just to rub it in, they arrested her husband (who committed no offense at all).

Authorities love to see threats to which they can over-react. I find them a worse
threat than clumsy comedians & crude gadflies.

Ref....
Pair Jailed For Remark To Clinton

 

[blü 2]

A federal judge can pretty much do whatever they want and that isn't right or acceptable to me.

Really? Who do you say should be in charge of determining civil claims and criminal prosecutions then?

The Pope?

Or do you advocate anarchy, the law of the jungle?

 

[DavidFirth]

Really? Who do you say should be in charge of determining civil claims and criminal prosecutions then?

The Pope?

Or do you advocate anarchy, the law of the jungle?

None of the above. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable bringing a case in front of a federal judge like you. Entirely too much power for one man.

 

[YmirGF]

I do agree that this is solicitation to assault but then I can't help but wonder would you really get closer than 10 feet away from her without being intercepted by the Secret Service agents? I can almost sense multiple tasers aimed at the next person in line at her book signing gigs. Even with the idea floated by @Revoltingest of plucking a hair off her suit. The moment your hand came up and moved towards her within a second you would find yourself on the ground with a bunch of agents clustered around you. For $5000 .... I don't think so.

 

[Augustus]

I must be too peaceful to see the soliciting of assault.
If I thought he were serious, & if I were near her, I'd just take one which fell out naturally.

He could have asked someone to 'find one of her hairs'.

When you say 'grab a hair from her' you appear to be encouraging people to take one from her head, especially when offering $5000 per hair.

Opinions will vary.
Would a reasonable person believe that he'd actually give them $5000?
I don't think so.

It's not innocent until proven guilty.

On bail the onus is really on him to prove that he wasn't committing a crime, which is difficult for him to do given the way he expressed his 'joke'. If it can be expected that even some of the tens of thousands of people who saw it might see it as a real offer then that's enough to be considered as a violation of his bail conditions.

 

[leibowde84]

Of course it's subjective.

This is always a problem. I remember when a gal was arrested for telling Bill
Clinton "You suck, & those boys died." Authorities decided that was a threat too.
And just to rub it in, they arrested her husband (who committed no offense at all).

Authorities love to see threats to which they can over-react. I find them a worse
threat than clumsy comedians & crude gadflies.

Ref....
Pair Jailed For Remark To Clinton

Millions of people certainly say a lot worse about Trump on a daily basis.

 

[Revoltingest]

Millions of people certainly say a lot worse about Trump on a daily basis.

It seems more acceptable to speak harshly about Trump.
To openly advocate assassination is common.