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Mathew takes Isaiah Chapter 7 way out of context

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly
Hi FM, "Personally"?? No and Yes. No, GOD hasn't felt the need to contact me "personally", but I fully believe that HE could do so.
When Aaron and Miriam sought to challenge Moses's authority(Num.12), GOD said HE would make the prophets. They were the one's who were sent to the Back-sliding Israelites for centuries(off and on as needed). AND THEIR MESSAGES WERE TRUE.





In Moses charge to the Israelites before they entered into the promised land this was his(Moses) message to those who would cross over to possess it. (Deut.28:58-68)
"If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;...(63)And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone. And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind: And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life: In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see..."

FM, the solution is in the humbling of heart and Returning to LORD GOD in Repentance and submission.
Scripturally, an arrogant/defiant tenacity for the "old wine" is contrary to the Scriptures----which will continue to be the "standard" no matter how many times redaction occurs by man.
That carrying away to Babylon is as Isaiah was preaching/instructing Judah concerning.

You just said that God has not spoken to you personally. And you have not met Moses or anyone either. So you are operating on hearsay.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly
...I'll listen to those prophets of old who speak/tell the same loving principles of GOD rather than some "new" information which is contrary to the teachings of GOD.

If you were a first century Jew, abiding by the Law and keeping the Sabbath, what would you say to a man who told you that you no longer had to follow the Law? All you needed was to believe and be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost and get your sins forgiven. That's pretty radical "new" information. Since your Scriptures would tell you the Law is forever and for all your generations.

HI, CG D, Again, "" "new" information which is contrary to the teachings of GOD.""
I know that you do not want to admit, but there was the Law which condemned/pointed out to one that Sin had been committed.(The Decalogue) and there was another group of laws which were given which were for the purpose of removing that "guilt" of the transgression.(The sacrificial/ceremonial laws pertaining to the sanctuary services.) It was the latter which Jesus came and fulfilled with HIS Death. Being the propitiation for the sins of all peoples from Adam to the very last Repentant sinner. Jesus is/was the Promised Messiah---and that was HIS Mission when HE came the first time.

The Decalogue is still in effect and the Sabbath is still the Seventh day of the week--not Sunday.
Just as the Sinner had to do when he brought his sacrifice before the priest--he had to confess his sins in repentance and then he did the cutting of the sacrifices throat securing the life saving blood for himself at the expense of that sacrifice.
Believing(FAITH IN) that ones death penalty has been paid is not near as "radical" as the participation in the actual sacrifice of that animal.

The principle of the "Blood for the remission of sins is still valid". Only Jesus gave HIS life for those who "Believe/has Faith in HIS Sacrifice. A plan which was scripturally in place before the foundation of the world was laid. It is/was "forever".
What that first century Jew was informed of was the same laws pertaining to the removal of sins as was seen in the OT was fulfilled in the death of the Promised ONE and foretold by the Prophets.

Now let's move ahead a few hundred years, you're still a Jew, and "Christians" were telling you to believe in Jesus, Mary, the Pope and confess your sins to a priest. Would you, should you, follow this "new" information that is supposedly from God?

A "few hundred years forward" would bring one into the "falling away" from the truths of the first followers of Jesus Christ and HIS teaching. This started with the transference of the Sabbath worship from the Seventh day of the week to the first day of the week as Eusebius and Constantine acknowledged and decreed.

Those things were "contrary to the Scriptures."and were prophesied to happen. "Thinketh to change times and laws". "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

It's easy for Protestants to say now what the "truth" is. And, to stop all "revelation" with their "new" revelation that Jesus saves, non-believing sinners are going to hell etc. 500 years ago, that was "new" information. Should a Jew and a Catholic at that time just stop following their beliefs and listen to the Protestants? Should they have followed Luther or Calvin or some of the others? There was some variation in what they were preaching as "truth."

The power which "fell away" when it was "wounded unto death" produced many daughters called "harlots". These all are following in the traits of the "mother harlot".
The "Everlasting Gospel" is still as GOD gave.

The Bible and the Christian NT has quite a bit of ambiguity in it. Somebody has to think about what it means and how it all comes together. Your way is one of them. What do we do with the others? Check them out against the Word? What if it's yours we don't believe matches? Maybe we notice things were taken out of context for instance.

An "Israelite" is not one who is born of a JEW, but as Jacob. one who has "prevailed with GOD AND MAN" An overcomer of sin which has enslaved one to be a true submitter to the will of the Father.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Originally Posted by sincerly
The Decalogue is still in effect and the Sabbath is still the Seventh day of the week--not Sunday.
Hey thanks for the detailed reply. I've skimmed through. I'll take a longer look tomorrow. But this sentence of yours is interesting. Have a good evening.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
You may call GOD'S Word/Scriptures hearsay. I choose to refer to the Scriptures as truth and life saving.

It may very well be truth and life saving, but given that you neither have true confirmation of who wrote them, and you have yourself admitted that God has not personally endorsed them to you, then it is hearsay. Those who experienced it were the ones who were revealed.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
It may very well be truth and life saving, but given that you neither have true confirmation of who wrote them, and you have yourself admitted that God has not personally endorsed them to you, then it is hearsay. Those who experienced it were the ones who were revealed.
Since many "faiths" result in the same feeling, that Ooh, it rings true. Or, I just know it in my heart. Or, Some of it is confusing, but we just have to trust God and take it on faith. As I've said before, every religious group I've been involve with told their version of the truth. As long as I believed it, it worked. So is it for real? Or is it all in our heads? The Bible plus the NT does have confusing and at least seemingly contradictory statements, not to mention some very "mythological" sounding events, how can anybody claim to "know" anything for sure based on the Bible and NT? Your gut feelings? Or, they pick a church or denomination they think is truest to the "Word." They put the controversial verses somewhere in the back of their minds and try to ignore them? Or, they study people that they trust and respect and go with their views on the subject.

I agree with you. A friend told me about Jesus and being saved. I trusted him. He had so much enthusiasm, what he was saying must be true. I went to his Church. The Pastor preached from the Bible and told us what and how to correctly believe in the word of God. He said the Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of God? I trusted him too. He said put your trust in Jesus and believe in your heart. It was a feeling, supposedly based on "sound" Biblical doctrines and truths, but it's all hearsay.

What was their faith based on? Words in a book that was written by fallible men? Words in a book that can be interpreted several different ways? Why trust them? And then the book itself? We don't know for sure who wrote some of the books? And, with the gospel of Matthew and his birth narrative? How am I supposed to trust a guy who tells me a story when he wasn't even there? How can I trust him when he picks verses out of the Hebrew Bible that are grossly out of context? How can I trust him when only two people even mention the birth story and the two stories contradict? Sounds like hearsay.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Originally Posted by sincerly
...he had to confess his sins in repentance and then he did the cutting of the sacrifices throat securing the life saving blood for himself at the expense of that sacrifice.
The principle of the "Blood for the remission of sins is still valid". Only Jesus gave HIS life for those who "Believe/has Faith in HIS Sacrifice. A plan which was scripturally in place before the foundation of the world was laid. It is/was "forever".
What that first century Jew was informed of was the same laws pertaining to the removal of sins as was seen in the OT was fulfilled in the death of the Promised ONE and foretold by the Prophets.
I heard that a blood sacrifice wasn't required if you were too poor. If that's true then why did God forgive them? Probably repentance, right? But let's talk about God's Laws. Christians can't and don't follow the Jewish Laws. But are they supposed to obey God's "commandments"? You said,
The Decalogue is still in effect and the Sabbath is still the Seventh day of the week--not Sunday.
I went to a Fundy Church and also a Pentecostal one. The Ten Commandments were not a big focus. How does your Church deal with them? But then, why not some of the other rules of conduct? Or, even the kosher laws?
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly
You may call GOD'S Word/Scriptures hearsay. I choose to refer to the Scriptures as truth and life saving.


It may very well be truth and life saving, but given that you neither have true confirmation of who wrote them, and you have yourself admitted that God has not personally endorsed them to you, then it is hearsay. Those who experienced it were the ones who were revealed.

HI FM, Thanks, The more you protest against those who were witnesses to the truths and actions/Life of Jesus Christ and HIS Mission as is written (for a witness)the more you you witness against yourself. The Scriptural rectifier is Repentance.

As the Scriptures conclude, Truth is established by more than one witness. Just in that group that followed Jesus---the record is that all(12) testified of Jesus as not only the "Messiah", but the "SON of GOD".
It isn't heresy, because I personally wasn't told. It is truth because there was sufficient "witnesses.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly
You may call GOD'S Word/Scriptures hearsay. I choose to refer to the Scriptures as truth and life saving.




HI FM, Thanks, The more you protest against those who were witnesses to the truths and actions/Life of Jesus Christ and HIS Mission as is written (for a witness)the more you you witness against yourself. The Scriptural rectifier is Repentance.

As the Scriptures conclude, Truth is established by more than one witness. Just in that group that followed Jesus---the record is that all(12) testified of Jesus as not only the "Messiah", but the "SON of GOD".
It isn't heresy, because I personally wasn't told. It is truth because there was sufficient "witnesses.

Against who am I protesting? Where you a witness? If not then it is hearsay...not heresy which you do not seem to know the difference between.

Now if you would please show me where it is shown that Luke and Mark were witnesses?
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly
You may call GOD'S Word/Scriptures hearsay. I choose to refer to the Scriptures as truth and life saving.

HI FM, Thanks, The more you protest against those who were witnesses to the truths and actions/Life of Jesus Christ and HIS Mission as is written (for a witness)the more you you witness against yourself. The Scriptural rectifier is Repentance.

As the Scriptures conclude, Truth is established by more than one witness. Just in that group that followed Jesus---the record is that all(12) testified of Jesus as not only the "Messiah", but the "SON of GOD".
It isn't heresy, because I personally wasn't told. It is truth because there was sufficient "witnesses.


Against who am I protesting? Where you a witness? If not then it is hearsay...not heresy which you do not seem to know the difference between.

Now if you would please show me where it is shown that Luke and Mark were witnesses?

Hi FM. Matthew and John were travelers with Jesus for three and a half years That establishes the Witness rule. However, Luke and Mark wrote from, as Luke wrote, "Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word"; therefore, were true witnesses and not hearsay.(gossip/fabrication)

Paul sets the number of alive at his writing most of over 500 persons(witnesses) who had seen Jesus after HIS Resurrection I COR.15:6
The Scriptures remain true and what you are supposing is the heresy.

Neither was I at the war for Independence nor the "civil war", but I believe they were real and took place as recorded initially.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly
You may call GOD'S Word/Scriptures hearsay. I choose to refer to the Scriptures as truth and life saving.

HI FM, Thanks, The more you protest against those who were witnesses to the truths and actions/Life of Jesus Christ and HIS Mission as is written (for a witness)the more you you witness against yourself. The Scriptural rectifier is Repentance.

As the Scriptures conclude, Truth is established by more than one witness. Just in that group that followed Jesus---the record is that all(12) testified of Jesus as not only the "Messiah", but the "SON of GOD".
It isn't heresy, because I personally wasn't told. It is truth because there was sufficient "witnesses.




Hi FM. Matthew and John were travelers with Jesus for three and a half years That establishes the Witness rule. However, Luke and Mark wrote from, as Luke wrote, "Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word"; therefore, were true witnesses and not hearsay.(gossip/fabrication)

Paul sets the number of alive at his writing most of over 500 persons(witnesses) who had seen Jesus after HIS Resurrection I COR.15:6
The Scriptures remain true and what you are supposing is the heresy.

Neither was I at the war for Independence nor the "civil war", but I believe they were real and took place as recorded initially.

I'm saying you are operating on hearsay. Can you prove that Matthew wrote Matthew? Can you prove that John wrote john? Were you there when it was written?

So you have no way of knowing so you operate base off what you have been taught. There's nothing at all wrong with that. Also john had Jesus's ministry lasting for one year.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
I'm saying you are operating on hearsay. Can you prove that Matthew wrote Matthew? Can you prove that John wrote john? Were you there when it was written?

So you have no way of knowing so you operate base off what you have been taught. There's nothing at all wrong with that. Also john had Jesus's ministry lasting for one year.

Hi FM, Since, """There's nothing at all wrong with that.""" why did you make an issue of it?
And to call it hearsay, when you were not there and can not prove that the Books assigned names were not written by them is worse than hearsay.

From what, do you conclude that John "had Jesus's ministry lasting for one year?
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Hi FM, Since, """There's nothing at all wrong with that.""" why did you make an issue of it?
And to call it hearsay, when you were not there and can not prove that the Books assigned names were not written by them is worse than hearsay.

From what, do you conclude that John "had Jesus's ministry lasting for one year?

I didn't make an issue, I pointed out that you are operating on hearsay. Since I was not there, and I know that the Authors of Luke and Mark were not among the disciples of Jesus, I figure that at best the must be operating off of what they had heard as well. The times of the writings of Matthew and John were not around the time that Jesus was alive, nor even when Paul was writing but much later.

The oldest book we have is Mark, which dates back to around 50 A.D. at the earliest. That would be over 20+ years after the death of Jesus. We can also see that Matthew and Luke draw from Mark, but while Mark doesn't talk about the Virgin Birth, Matthew does, and so does Luke, Yet neither Matthew or Luke have correct genealogies (not simply in the listings but in the fact that if I remember correctly Luke has more people listed). While Luke claims witnesses we don't have information on who those witnesses are (names would be helpful, there were twelve disciples to talk to). We also don't know if it was the Luke the Physicians who was friends with Paul or another Luke.

It also helps that it wasn't uncommon for people to use the names of people who were well known when writing.

Also you are right, Johns has the ministry lasting for over two years, while the synoptics appear to have the ministry running for maybe 1 to two years max.

Here's a list of the difference between John and the synoptics.

The Book of John is significantly different from the Synoptic Gospels:
Jesus is identified with the divine Word ("Logos") and referred to as theos ("God").[119]
The Gospel of John gives no account of the Nativity of Jesus, unlike Matthew and Luke, and his mother's name is never given. John does assert that Jesus was known as the "son of Joseph" in 6:42.
In chapter 7:41-42, and again in 7:52, John records some of the crowd of Pharisees dismissing the possibility of Jesus's being the Messiah, on the grounds that the Messiah must be a descendent of David and born in Bethlehem, stating that Jesus instead came out of Galilee (as is stated in the Gospel of Mark); John made no effort to refute or correct (nor did he affirm) this, and this has been advanced as implying that John rejected the synoptic tradition of Jesus's birth in Bethlehem.
The Pharisees, portrayed as more uniformly legalistic and opposed to Jesus in the synoptic gospels, are instead portrayed as sharply divided; they debate frequently in the Gospel of John's accounts. Some, such as Nicodemus, even go so far as to be at least partially sympathetic to Jesus. This is believed to be a more accurate historical depiction of the Pharisees, who made debate one of the tenets of their system of belief.[120]
John makes no mention of Jesus' baptism,[103] but quotes John the Baptist's description of the descent of the Holy Spirit.
John the Baptist publicly proclaims Jesus to be the Lamb of God. The Baptist recognizes Jesus secretly in Matthew, and not at all in Mark or Luke. John also denies that he is Elijah, whereas Mark and Matthew identify him with Elijah.
The Temple incident appears near the beginning of Jesus' ministry. In the synoptics this occurs soon before Jesus is crucified.
John contains four visits by Jesus to Jerusalem, three associated with the Passover feast. This chronology suggests Jesus' public ministry lasted three or two years. The synoptic gospels describe only one trip to Jerusalem in time for the Passover observance.
Jesus washes the disciples' feet instead of the synoptics' ritual with bread and wine (the Eucharist).[17][103]
No other women are mentioned going to the tomb with Mary Magdalene.
John does not contain any parables.[121] Rather it contains metaphoric stories or allegories, such as The Shepherd and The Vine, in which each individual element corresponds to a specific group or thing.
Major synoptic speeches of Jesus are absent, including the Sermon on the Mount and the Olivet discourse.[122]
While the synoptics look forward to a future Kingdom of God (using the term parousia, meaning "coming"), John presents an eschatology that has already been realized.[123]
The Kingdom of God is mentioned only twice in John.[124] In contrast, the other gospels repeatedly use the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven as important concepts.
The exorcisms of demons are never mentioned as in the synoptics.[103][124]
John never lists all of the Twelve Disciples and names at least one disciple (Nathanael) whose name is not found in the synoptics; Nathanael appears to parallel the apostle Bartholomew found in the synoptics, as both are paired with Philip in the respective gospels. While James and John are prominent disciples in the synoptics, John mentions them only in the epilogue, where they are referred to not by name but as the "sons of Zebedee."
Thomas the Apostle is given a personality beyond a mere name, as "Doubting Thomas".

I find the bible an amazingly interesting book, as it really shows mans attempt to try to understand God, so much that you see a development in character in all the books of the Bible...I suppose God must have quite the chuckle at humanities attempt.
 
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gnostic

The Lost One
franklinmichaelv3 said:
I didn't make an issue, I pointed out that you are operating on hearsay. Since I was not there, and I know that the Authors of Luke and Mark were not among the disciples of Jesus, I figure that at best the must be operating off of what they had heard as well. The times of the writings of Matthew and John were not around the time that Jesus was alive, nor even when Paul was writing but much later.

The oldest book we have is Mark, which dates back to around 50 A.D. at the earliest. That would be over 20+ years after the death of Jesus. We can also see that Matthew and Luke draw from Mark, but while Mark doesn't talk about the Virgin Birth, Matthew does, and so does Luke, Yet neither Matthew or Luke have correct genealogies (not simply in the listings but in the fact that if I remember correctly Luke has more people listed). While Luke claims witnesses we don't have information on who those witnesses are (names would be helpful, there were twelve disciples to talk to). We also don't know if it was the Luke the Physicians who was friends with Paul or another Luke.

It also helps that it wasn't uncommon for people to use the names of people who were well known when writing.

Also you are right, Johns has the ministry lasting for over two years, while the synoptics appear to have the ministry running for maybe 1 to two years max.

All these are good, logical and valid points, but it is unfortunate that you have wasted your efforts on sincerly. He won't be moved.

Sincerly is like the blind pharaoh, who has hardened his against the Israelites, refusing to set them free, no matter how many times Moses had petitioned him...until it is too late, and all firstborn were killed in Egypt.

Sincerly won't admit to any mistake on his parts, because he infallible like his god. And even if he didn't make mistake himself, but quoted erred claim from a website, he will pretend there is no error on that webpage, because the webpage is infallible, like him.

Example of error sincerly quoted, but fail to see the error in translation (Isaiah 7:14, from blueletterbible.org):

Isaiah 7:14 said:
Behold, a virgin

h5959
עַלְמָה `almah
speaker18x12.png
According to this blueribbonbible.com, they have translated 'almah to "behold, a virgin", except there is no "behold" in almah. "Behold" or "look" would have in Hebrew
hinneh.jpg
or its transliteration hinneh, so the KJV "Behold, a virgin" would like "Hinneh, 'a'mah, but he refused to see the mistake made by this website, and fought-tooth-and-nail with me and jayhawker.

And the worse problem is he think that the KJV is infallible translation, because he will reject all new translations or newer scholarship that disagree with him and with his belief.

The sheet arrogance is a wonder how he even become a Christian at all.
 
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sincerly

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly
Hi FM, Since, """There's nothing at all wrong with that.""" why did you make an issue of it?
And to call it hearsay, when you were not there and can not prove that the Books assigned names were not written by them is worse than hearsay.

From what, do you conclude that John "had Jesus's ministry lasting for one year?


I didn't make an issue, I pointed out that you are operating on hearsay. Since I was not there, and I know that the Authors of Luke and Mark were not among the disciples of Jesus, I figure that at best the must be operating off of what they had heard as well. The times of the writings of Matthew and John were not around the time that Jesus was alive, nor even when Paul was writing but much later.

The oldest book we have is Mark, which dates back to around 50 A.D. at the earliest. That would be over 20+ years after the death of Jesus. We can also see that Matthew and Luke draw from Mark, but while Mark doesn't talk about the Virgin Birth, Matthew does, and so does Luke, Yet neither Matthew or Luke have correct genealogies (not simply in the listings but in the fact that if I remember correctly Luke has more people listed). While Luke claims witnesses we don't have information on who those witnesses are (names would be helpful, there were twelve disciples to talk to). We also don't know if it was the Luke the Physicians who was friends with Paul or another Luke.

Hi FM, """We also don't know""" is the depth of the truthfulness of the article you are bringing as evidence to for your "hearsay"----opinions.
One can not base truthfulness on the "lack of/ silence of/ doesn't say" in a event. That is speculation.

It also helps that it wasn't uncommon for people to use the names of people who were well known when writing.

"Helps" what? Wasn't that what scribes did? Write for those who didn't know how to write! That doesn't detract from the message being sent for the one dictating the message.

Also you are right, Johns has the ministry lasting for over two years, while the synoptics appear to have the ministry running for maybe 1 to two years max.

"Appear" is an opinion---guess.

Here's a list of the difference between John and the synoptics.

That list was produced by other than yourself and is someone's attempt to cause doubt in the Scriptures.
See above for your answer.

The Book of John is significantly different from the Synoptic Gospels:

FM, Why not? John saw Jesus Christ for who HE is/was---the very Son of GOD, the Father, and the mission which HE came to fulfill. John was priviledged to out-live the others(as far as we know) and to receive the last message from Jesus Christ (Revelation).

The other Disciples acknowledged the fact, but wrote of Jesus Christ's actions/teachings/physical life among the people. (Each from their own perspective---and there was "remembering of the same events and teachings".

I find the bible an amazingly interesting book, as it really shows mans attempt to try to understand God, so much that you see a development in character in all the books of the Bible...I suppose God must have quite the chuckle at humanities attempt.

Yes, GOD is amused at the antics of mankind in their attempt to circumvent HIS instructions. Ps. 2:1-4, "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. "
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
All these are good, logical and valid points, but it is unfortunate that you have wasted your efforts on sincerly. He won't be moved.

Sincerly is like the blind pharaoh, who has hardened his against the Israelites, refusing to set them free, no matter how many times Moses had petitioned him...until it is too late, and all firstborn were killed in Egypt.

Sincerly won't admit to any mistake on his parts, because he infallible like his god. And even if he didn't make mistake himself, but quoted erred claim from a website, he will pretend there is no error on that webpage, because the webpage is infallible, like him.

Example of error sincerly quoted, but fail to see the error in translation (Isaiah 7:14, from blueletterbible.org):


According to this blueribbonbible.com, they have translated 'almah to "behold, a virgin", except there is no "behold" in almah. "Behold" or "look" would have in Hebrew
hinneh.jpg
or its transliteration hinneh, so the KJV "Behold, a virgin" would like "Hinneh, 'a'mah, but he refused to see the mistake made by this website, and fought-tooth-and-nail with me and jayhawker.

And the worse problem is he think that the KJV is infallible translation, because he will reject all new translations or newer scholarship that disagree with him and with his belief.

The sheet arrogance is a wonder how he even become a Christian at all.

Hi Gnostic, "behold" was used by you to point out that the almah was present.

A newer counterfeit doesn't give the value of the real---anymore that the old counterfeit.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly
Hi FM, Since, """There's nothing at all wrong with that.""" why did you make an issue of it?
And to call it hearsay, when you were not there and can not prove that the Books assigned names were not written by them is worse than hearsay.

From what, do you conclude that John "had Jesus's ministry lasting for one year?




Hi FM, """We also don't know""" is the depth of the truthfulness of the article you are bringing as evidence to for your "hearsay"----opinions.
One can not base truthfulness on the "lack of/ silence of/ doesn't say" in a event. That is speculation.



"Helps" what? Wasn't that what scribes did? Write for those who didn't know how to write! That doesn't detract from the message being sent for the one dictating the message.



"Appear" is an opinion---guess.



That list was produced by other than yourself and is someone's attempt to cause doubt in the Scriptures.
See above for your answer.



FM, Why not? John saw Jesus Christ for who HE is/was---the very Son of GOD, the Father, and the mission which HE came to fulfill. John was priviledged to out-live the others(as far as we know) and to receive the last message from Jesus Christ (Revelation).

The other Disciples acknowledged the fact, but wrote of Jesus Christ's actions/teachings/physical life among the people. (Each from their own perspective---and there was "remembering of the same events and teachings".



Yes, GOD is amused at the antics of mankind in their attempt to circumvent HIS instructions. Ps. 2:1-4, "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. "

It actually was based off Biblical Scholars who research this, there is a wiki article that looks at the differences between the synoptic gospels and john. Where are the writings of the other disciples?

How do you know John outlived the others?

Essentially you are just going by tradition that John wrote Revelations.

PRetty much hearsay.

Unless you are saying that God has personally told you who wrote all the books of the Bible.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
It actually was based off Biblical Scholars who research this, there is a wiki article that looks at the differences between the synoptic gospels and john. Where are the writings of the other disciples?

HI FM, Have you ever pressed/gone to the "talk button" on any of the articles of "Wikipedia"? Those are not Bible scholars, but other "men" expressing their opinions with man made guidelines.
Unless, those "Scholars" are of the same conclusions as is given by the Inspired writings of the Prophets, then they are in error. Modern progressive thinking and conclusions contrary to Isa.8:20 remains false.

How do you know John outlived the others?

Essentially you are just going by tradition that John wrote Revelations.

PRetty much hearsay.

As far as the writings reveal concerning the disciples, John was the last and Rev.1:1-9, gives evidence to John being the recipient and writer of Revelation. You may doubt it being the same John that walked and witnessed all that was done by Jesus Christ---that is your Choice, but I have no doubts as evidenced in the other writings by his name.
"Hearsay", appears to be your only argument and is unfounded, because the Scriptures are a witness to their validity.
The BIBLE is a compilation of many "books" by many writers and they are all witnessing to the same original and ending events pictured therein.
Therefore, not "hearsay", but FACT/TRUTH.

Unless you are saying that God has personally told you who wrote all the books of the Bible.

See above. and previously.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
HI FM, Have you ever pressed/gone to the "talk button" on any of the articles of "Wikipedia"? Those are not Bible scholars, but other "men" expressing their opinions with man made guidelines.
Unless, those "Scholars" are of the same conclusions as is given by the Inspired writings of the Prophets, then they are in error. Modern progressive thinking and conclusions contrary to Isa.8:20 remains false.



As far as the writings reveal concerning the disciples, John was the last and Rev.1:1-9, gives evidence to John being the recipient and writer of Revelation. You may doubt it being the same John that walked and witnessed all that was done by Jesus Christ---that is your Choice, but I have no doubts as evidenced in the other writings by his name.
"Hearsay", appears to be your only argument and is unfounded, because the Scriptures are a witness to their validity.
The BIBLE is a compilation of many "books" by many writers and they are all witnessing to the same original and ending events pictured therein.
Therefore, not "hearsay", but FACT/TRUTH.



See above. and previously.

Ah so you don't know how Wikipedia works.

Where does it say that it was the same John? So you only operate on hearsay, that's cool. There is no argument being made, I'm just pointing out that you operate on hearsay, not personal revelation.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Ah so you don't know how Wikipedia works.

Where does it say that it was the same John? So you only operate on hearsay, that's cool. There is no argument being made, I'm just pointing out that you operate on hearsay, not personal revelation.

Hi FM, Again, Your conclusions are based on your opinions and scripturally unfounded as to truth and certainly in conection to your evaluation of me.
 
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