Desert Snake
Veteran Member
So now you're attacking my integrity...
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Mathew takes Isaiah Chapter 7 way out of context
- Thread starter CG Didymus
- Start date
So now you're attacking my integrity...
No. It's Perfectly possible that you simply don't understand what you're talking about. Let's see ...The word "so" can be replaced with the word "therefore" and the dialogue above is tantamount to you suggesting:
You reject original sin therefore Judaism believes it possible to be sinless.
At bet, it's a really dumb non sequitur. Pretending that it was not implied strikes me as more than a little disingenuous.Desert Snake
Veteran Member
don't worry about it, I'll just check my textual resources for commentary on 'original sin', no need for you to read into my question like that
I read nothing into it.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
By using the term "disingenuous" it's obvious that you did. Frankly, the question was pretty simple
sincerly
Well-Known Member
Hi gnostic, Correct, Ezekiel was referred to by GOD as "the son of man".
However, Jesus Christ came to redeem mankind in the "flesh of mankind"(as well as Divinity). Therefore, it is/was appropiate to be referred to as "Son of man".
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Jayhawker Soule, when you said that there was little that you would find relevant to your criticism of Shermana's posts; you were right. I was "mining" you for quotes that I could use to push my agenda, sorry. But if everyone else is doing it, and then reinterpreting it, why not me?
Like Disciple? "Original sin concept comes from Genesis." Sorry, I have to go with someone that comes from Judaism, Jayhawker Soule, when he says, "No, it comes from a Christian interpretation of Genesis." Christians "mine" the Hebrew Scriptures for places that say things like I was born in sin or that no one is righteous etc. But, what is the agenda? To get us to need a Savior.
I do need a Savior. I do have an inclination to get mad, be selfish, and be an all around jerk. But all religions that I have tried made me a better person. Like I've mentioned before, that is until I started questioning that religion. Once I stop believing, that religion stops working for me.
Taking things out of context made me doubt all those other religions. All of them borrowed, stole, misquoted ideas from other religions. Christianity did it with Judaism, maybe even Persian and Greek religions. Did Christians add the virgin birth in to impress Greeks and Romans and compete with their god/men? Why not? It sounds possible.
And, regarding the question about being "sinless" not even Christians are sinless. Too many Christians are horrible examples of what a Bible-believing Christian should be. Too many are just nominal Christians. They might not even know what or why they believe. By making it necessary to believe superstitious sounding things like the virgin birth and by Christians being poor examples of righteous behavior, makes Christianity worthy to be doubted and questioned. Ironically, the made up holiday of Christmas makes me smile and be more generous. I sing Silent Night and love it. Hmm, a made up holiday and yet, it works?
Like Disciple? "Original sin concept comes from Genesis." Sorry, I have to go with someone that comes from Judaism, Jayhawker Soule, when he says, "No, it comes from a Christian interpretation of Genesis." Christians "mine" the Hebrew Scriptures for places that say things like I was born in sin or that no one is righteous etc. But, what is the agenda? To get us to need a Savior.
I do need a Savior. I do have an inclination to get mad, be selfish, and be an all around jerk. But all religions that I have tried made me a better person. Like I've mentioned before, that is until I started questioning that religion. Once I stop believing, that religion stops working for me.
Taking things out of context made me doubt all those other religions. All of them borrowed, stole, misquoted ideas from other religions. Christianity did it with Judaism, maybe even Persian and Greek religions. Did Christians add the virgin birth in to impress Greeks and Romans and compete with their god/men? Why not? It sounds possible.
And, regarding the question about being "sinless" not even Christians are sinless. Too many Christians are horrible examples of what a Bible-believing Christian should be. Too many are just nominal Christians. They might not even know what or why they believe. By making it necessary to believe superstitious sounding things like the virgin birth and by Christians being poor examples of righteous behavior, makes Christianity worthy to be doubted and questioned. Ironically, the made up holiday of Christmas makes me smile and be more generous. I sing Silent Night and love it. Hmm, a made up holiday and yet, it works?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Wrong, I read Rabbinical commentary for most of my information on Biblical subjects. I was asking Jayhawker because I wanted his personal opinion on the subject, and it's context in Judaism, as he has "Judaism" listed for his religion... which he misinterpreted as some sort of theological argument.
You're wrong a lot, aren't you? i'm wondering when you're going to post something right
sincerly
Well-Known Member
Hi CG D, The Scriptures have placed all humans as sinful and worthy of death. However, this thread/topic just gives a little more information by GOD to Isaiah concerning that which was given to Adam and Eve in Gen.3:15.
There are those who do follow The instructions given by GOD the Father to Jesus(Since Jesus only gave that which was given to HIM by the Father). Then there are those who "profess to be HIS Followers". Then, lastly, there are those who have no god or have other beliefs.
gnostic
The Lost One
sincerly said:
I always thought "son of man" just mean human, with all his (human) weakness, fraility and flaws.
That Christians changed the meaning of "son of man", to something else entirely, like Messiah. Ezekiel was indeed a prophet, but not the promised messiah, and if he (Ezekiel) indeed did exist, "very human".
And according to Christian teachings, Jesus was supposedly "perfect", a being without flaws, which sort of contradict of Jesus being a god or the god.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
No, that should basically confirm it, if it were the case. Judaism doesn't have "original sin" in the same sense as Christianity, however the chances of someone being without sin would be very unlikely.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Disciple, you said, "You're wrong a lot, aren't you? i'm wondering when you're going to post something right." That is hilarious! Thanks for telling me, because all this time I thought I was the one that was right.
But tell me, what do your studies of the rabbinical commentaries say about Isaiah chapter 7?
But tell me, what do your studies of the rabbinical commentaries say about Isaiah chapter 7?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
What? Anyways I just read Isaiah 7, what's your question regarding it?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
It doesn't say what the sign is
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Could've been the Star of Bethlehem
sincerly
Well-Known Member
Hi gnostic, That isn't what the Scriptures say. HIS "Humanity" only came from "the seed of the woman--Mary". However, HIS "Divinity" came from the HOLY SPIRIT. There were no "weaknesses, fraility nor flaws". Jesus was tried/tested in every way that a human being(from Adam) has been tempted and sinned NOT. HIS mission upon earth revealed by HIS "Works of righteousnes" that HE NOT only was the Promised Messiah, but the SON OF GOD---THE FATHER.
Ezekiel was,indeed, a human and a Prophet of GOD, but not the Messiah. Daniel was writing after the life of Ezekiel and prophesied the comimg of the Messiah some almost 500 years later.
Again, that isn't what the scriptures relate----NOR what the Christian Belief is teaching. Yes, Jesus was "perfect". That is why HE was able to be the propitiation for the sins of all mankind.( those who elect to confess their sins, Repent of that activity and submit one's will to that of the Father.)
Jesus took upon HIMSELF the Sins of all those who choose to Believe in HIS Saving sacrifice.(as above)
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
What do the commentaries by Rabbi's that you've studied say about Isaiah chapter 7? Do they say it is a prophesy about the messiah being born of a virgin? Or, was it a sign for the King of Judah to not fret over the two kings that were threatening to attack? Or, something else?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Are you serious? I don't study Biblical commentary all the time, I was talking about original sin, which I do have Rabbinical reference to
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Good, let's have it. I'm tired of being wrong all the time. And, when you have a chance to study your Rabbinical commentaries, please let me know what they say about Isaiah chapter 7. I know I'm probably wrong, but I'm thinking that Mathew took it way out of context. What do you think?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
If you mean the verse about the "sign", no, I don't think it's necessarily out of context. That being said I haven't looked into the subject yet