Maya : The root cause of pain and misery

[The Crimson Universe]

We all know that Ishwar's shakti Maya is the root cause of everything evil in the world. Yogananda said that the entity which the western world calls by the name Satan is nothing but Ishwar's shakti Maya.
This maya keeps us in ignorance. Due to this ignorance we not only get attached to worldly things but we also end up doing heinous crimes like murder, rape, adultery etc. And then we suffer the consequences of our karma, either in this life or the next or maybe in hell.

The only thing i want to know is that, if Ishwar (personal God) pollutes our mind with his Maya shakti and makes us do abominable acts, then why should we suffer the consequences. Shouldn't God be the actual culprit for keeping us under maya's spell?

 

[Vinayaka]

We all know that Ishwar's shakti Maya is the root cause of everything evil in the world.

We do? Evil?

 

[Alienistic]

The only thing i want to know is that, if Ishwar (personal God) pollutes our mind with his Maya shakti and makes us do abominable acts, then why should we suffer the consequences. Shouldn't God be the actual culprit for keeping us under maya's spell?

That would be logical, yes. Would be pretty vile to create or a design a human species ignorant, also with a bad ego and then hold that human species accountable for the actions performed in ignorance and in bad ego.

If something vile like this exists, maybe it would do precisely this. Holds the human species accountable for actions not its own fault and bestows negative “karma” on them.

 

[George-ananda]

The only thing i want to know is that, if Ishwar (personal God) pollutes our mind with his Maya shakti and makes us do abominable acts, then why should we suffer the consequences. Shouldn't God be the actual culprit for keeping us under maya's spell?

My Advaita answer would be to remember we also 'are' that God that you want to call 'culprit'.

I see the universe as Consciousness/God/Brahman creating a play/drama. In Act I God separates Itself from Itself (imposes Maya). In Act II God returns Itself to Itself. It is a play with a happy ending for all; Moksha.

In the middle of the play there is much pain and joy (ignorance-separation and love-oneness). Why does God do this you might ask? The best analogy is why do humans write plays/dramas? Answer 'to Experience'. To appreciate a play/drama we have to identify the characters as being real for the duration of the play (and not just regular people playing a role).

So during the play of this universe God willingly imposes Maya on Itself to enjoy the play temporarily as real.

 

[Aupmanyav]

We all know that Ishwar's shakti Maya is the root cause of everything evil in the world. Yogananda said that the entity which the western world calls by the name Satan is nothing but Ishwar's shakti Maya.

The only thing I want to know is that, if Ishwar (personal God) pollutes our mind with his Maya shakti and makes us do abominable acts, then why should we suffer the consequences. Shouldn't God be the actual culprit for keeping us under maya's spell?

Maya is responsible for Good as well as bad. Forget what Yogananda said. Did he show any evidence for existence of Ishwara? Why would Ishwara try to deceive people? Starting with an incorrect premise, we cannot get to truth. My Advaita is very clear about this.

Brahman does not create maya, but its presence itself is the cause of maya. If there are atoms, molecules will form, even 'macro-molecular assemblies'. No doing, creating involved.

Yogananda had 10 years of school education (not in today's American schools, but in Indian schools in Varanasi, Bareilly and Lahore, etc. - probably 1898-1908) never saw a college. By the time he was 17 (1910), he bolted from his home. He must have been a great disappointment to his educated father, as per Wikipedia, Vice President of Bengal-Nagpur Railway. He was running after yogis and ascetics. He was just not interested in studies. I do not think he knew anything about science of his days. In contrast, by 1905 a 26-year old Albert Einstein was propounding his 'Theory of Relativity'. So, where does that lack of education lead to - to superstitions and to strut as a wise-man from East. That is the easiest thing done, as Deepak Chopra also does.

I am not Brahman, I am Me.

That is the problem. You are Brahman, and you are willfully trying to be a 'me' (ego). You simply cannot stop being Brahman. Because that is what you are (Tat twam asi).

 

[Aupmanyav]

My question to non-dualists: why would Brahman choose to be a part of such a sick play where the punishments are so severe and terrible? Your answer would probably be to EXPERIENCE the drama. But is it really necessary to experience such barbarism? The universe would have been a much better place if there were peace, love and compassion instead of such barbaric games.

Brahman is not part of this 'mayavi", imaginary play. It is always 'Tatastha' (uninvolved) - will electricity be concerned with the shock that a person receives on coming in contact with a live wire? Brahman does not do anything at all. Just its presence creates all this illusion. As for the punishments, they too are our imagination. There is no hell or heaven. There is no soul. So, dream on, dream on, unless you wake up.

Only the theists will be horrified by what is written in Garuda Purana, the non-dualists know that it is a creation of brahmin priests to squeeze more money from clients, the various kinds of charity, dana. And even the charity is most beneficial if it goes to brahmins. Even RigVeda has Dana Stuties (Eulogies), whose basic purpose was to get more money from clients. "Your great grandpa gave so much to my great grandpa, what are you going to give me?" Dana Stutis are a distinct genre in RigVeda.

You will see this particular game at places of Hindu pilgrimages. A person come with a short-statured cow and will request you to perform a 'gau-dana' (gift of a cow). A good cow will cost nothing less than 5000 USD, but with some haggling, the person will accept a token 5 USD from you and credit to you all the merit having donated a cow.

It is not only the brahmins who did that. There were people (bhat, charan) who would come to a kings court and sing eulogies of former kings. The kings respected them because if sufficient money was not given to them, they may twist the eulogies and talk ill of the king's ancestors.

Gifting a cow (Gau-dana)

 

[Aupmanyav]

"They who, from home, have gladdened thee, thy servants Parasara, Vasiṣṭha, Satayatu,
Will not forget thy friendship, liberal Giver. So shall the days dawn prosperous for the princes.
Priest-like, with praise, I move around the altar, earning Paijavana's reward, O Agni,
Two hundred cows from Devavan's descendant, two chariots from Sudās with mares to draw them.
Gift of Paijavana, four horses bear me in foremost place, trained steeds with pearl to deck them.
Sudās's brown steeds, firmly-stepping, carry me and my son for progeny and glory.
Attend on him O ye heroic Maruts as on Sudās's father Divodāsa.
Further Paijavana's desire with favour. Guard faithfully his lasting firm dominion."
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 7: HYMN XVIII. Indra.

This from Book 7 of RigVeda, describing what is known as "Battle of Ten Kings", the biggest battle mentioned in RigVeda. The hymns of Book 7 are ascribed to the lineage of Sage Vasishtha. And if we go by lineages, then they were my clansmen. I may also be a Vasishtha, being in the line of Sage Upamanyu, who belonged to that lineage.

 

[mangalavara]

Member 'Mangalavara' above quoted from the scriptures saying, "according to one acts, so does he becomes". What he means is that whatever karma we perform we enjoy or suffer according to that deed.

No. What exactly I wrote in post #8 is exactly what I meant.

An individual can suffer for doing something virtuous, in my experience.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

No. What exactly I wrote in post #8 is exactly what I meant.

An individual can suffer for doing something virtuous, in my experience.

And why would one suffer for doing something virtuous. Can you please explain that?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal. Toss of a coin. Some will suffer, some will not, whether they do good or evil. That is part of worldly life.

 

[mangalavara]

And why would one suffer for doing something virtuous. Can you please explain that?

I chose to be truthful, which is virtuous, and I received bad treatment in response from the person I truthfully spoke to. My moment of suffering was not Īśvara's way of punishing me, rather, it occurred because the person who treated me badly is intentionally a bad person. I would not be surprised if her next life is that of some malevolent spirit in a miserable world: it would simply suit her.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

Brahman is not part of this 'mayavi", imaginary play. It is always 'Tatastha' (uninvolved) - will electricity be concerned with the shock that a person receives on coming in contact with a live wire? Brahman does not do anything at all. Just its presence creates all this illusion.

Yes its true that Brahman/Atman does nothing. It performs no action, as mentioned by Krishna in scripture Gita. Just like electricity animates a lifeless machine, the same way Brahman animates the jada or inert prakriti (which includes the universe, our minds, bodies etc.)

But then the question that comes to our mind is that, why would Brahman's presence (as Aup said above) create illusion, ignorance, chaos and evil in the world.

Why Brahman holds such illusory power (maya) in its pocket in the first place, that would bring nothing but chaos in the world.

If Brahman is nothing but divine light or pure spirit, then why there's so much evil in this world ... George's answer would be to experience the play.
My point is... the world is currently in chaos and turmoil. There's disease, war, poverty etc. just because Brahman wanted to gain some pleasure and experience from this play. This makes me sad.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

I chose to be truthful, which is virtuous, and I received bad treatment in response from the person I truthfully spoke to. My moment of suffering was not Īśvara's way of punishing me, rather, it occurred because the person who treated me badly is intentionally a bad person. I would not be surprised if her next life is that of some malevolent spirit in a miserable world: it would simply suit her.

You said "you deserved bad treatment from another person because that person is wicked in nature, even though you were good to him".

By saying this you're kinda denying the law of cause and effect (the law of karma).

The law of karma says- you reap what you sow. If you go by this law, and you recieve poor treatment from others, then that means you must have done something bad in your past life/lives or in this life, for which you're getting the poor treatment through a person who is already wicked. There's always a cause behind an effect, as the learned gurus and swamis say. Nothing happens accidentally.

But my point is, as i've mentioned in my original post, is that, even these karmas that we perform (knowingly and unknowingly) are being performed under the spell of maya. Its like we are brainwashed into doing abominable acts and then we suffer the consequences, even though we are not the real culprits. The real culprit is Brahman's illusory power maya.

 

[SalixIncendium]

We all know that Ishwar's shakti Maya is the root cause of everything evil in the world. Yogananda said that the entity which the western world calls by the name Satan is nothing but Ishwar's shakti Maya.
This maya keeps us in ignorance. Due to this ignorance we not only get attached to worldly things but we also end up doing heinous crimes like murder, rape, adultery etc. And then we suffer the consequences of our karma, either in this life or the next or maybe in hell.

The only thing i want to know is that, if Ishwar (personal God) pollutes our mind with his Maya shakti and makes us do abominable acts, then why should we suffer the consequences. Shouldn't God be the actual culprit for keeping us under maya's spell?

Maya is the root cause of everything in this world. In fact, Maya is cause. Vivikananda said Maya is time, space, and causation. Are these evil?

Placing an "evil" spin on Maya and comparing it to Satan would come from a western mindset.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

Maya is the root cause of everything in this world. In fact, Maya is cause. Vivikananda said Maya is time, space, and causation. Are these evil?

Placing an "evil" spin on Maya and comparing it to Satan would come from a western mindset.

You're right. Maya is the cause of everything. Both good and evil. But mostly the evil in this world outweighs the good.
There's rape, pedophilia, adultery, murder, prostitution, diseases, terrorism etc. Aren't these evil? Aren't these maya's doing?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why Brahman holds such illusory power (maya) in its pocket in the first place, that would bring nothing but chaos in the world.

Science explains it if you would go through carefully with Universe - Wikipedia.

'Physical energy" - quark epoch, the hadron epoch, and the lepton epoch (creation of sub-atomic particles - 10 seconds) - Nucleosynthesis (Formation of atom nuclii - 20 minutes) - Photon epoch cooling of universe, recombination period, first stable atoms - 377,000 years) - end of the radiation-dominated era and the start of the matter-dominated era - 47,000 years) - first stars 100-300 million years) - stellar nucleosysthesis (reionization, creation of atoms heavier than Helium - 200-500 million years and 1 billion years).

When atoms heavier than Helium were available, they formed molecules in those conditions and later 'macro-molecular assemblies', viruses bacteria, fungi, RNA, DNA, cynobacteria, eubacteria, and finally various living beings. Where is any God or Brahman involved in this?

About 700 million years ago, brain developed in animals, humans are one of the final results. Not the sole final result, but just one of the many final results. Life and death, easy periods and difficult periods, good and evil, all are just part of this process. How can the material, the entity which constitutes all these things can be held responsible for this? I hope you get my meaning.

Science does not have the answer to why that ball of energy with high pressure and high temperature was there. Perhaps our future generations will know.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Greg, the law of karma does not involve any God or Brahman, and IMHO, it does not operate over many lives, because we have just one life. And in this one life, we do some good, we may get some good return or do not. In the same way, if we do some evil, we have suffer some bad consequences or perhaps not. Some doing good may feel cheated, and some doing evil may smirk at having escaped (like some politicians embezzling public funds and never being punished for it). But that is the way the world is.

IMHO, @SalixIncendium, you are right. Don't blame any one or anything. That is how the world is. Fume at it, if you are not comfortable with it, but that is not going to help anyone.

There's rape, pedophilia, adultery, murder, prostitution, diseases, terrorism etc. Aren't these evil? Aren't these maya's doing?

According to society, they are evil. If you think Maya is doing all this, then why don't you abandon Maya? Then you would see the things in right perspective. God and soul also are of the world of Maya. Brahman, alone, is the truth. Sankara said "Brahma satyam, jagan-mithya .."

 

[SalixIncendium]

You're right. Maya is the cause of everything. Both good and evil. But mostly the evil in this world outweighs the good.
There's rape, pedophilia, adultery, murder, prostitution, diseases, terrorism etc. Aren't these evil? Aren't these maya's doing?

While these atrocities exist, so does karma. These could be the effect of one's karmic account, or the causal addition to it.

And no, these things you list are not Maya's doing. These are the jiva's doing as a result of avidya, incorrect knowledge, ignorance of one's true nature, with the possible exception of disease. I can't think of anything anyone did that resulted in certain diseases.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

IMHO, it does not operate over many lives, because we have just one life. And in this one life, we do some good.

In Gita, Lord Krishna told Arjuna that both Him and Arjuna passed through many births. The Lord knows them all. But not Arjuna. We do reincarnate my friend, even if you don't want to believe in multiple lives.

If you think Maya is doing all this, then why don't you abandon Maya? Then you would see the things in right perspective.

Even if i abandon maya and give up all sensual pleasures and attachments, even then the world wouldn't turn into a better place. The maya shakti would still be active and would continue to keep the rest of humanity under the veil of ignorance.

============

And no, these things you list are not Maya's doing. These are the jiva's doing as a result of avidya, incorrect knowledge, ignorance of one's true nature.

And isn't this ignorance a product of maya?

Advaita speaks of maya's two qualities.
1. Aavaran shakti (Concealing power)
2. Vikshepa shakti (Projecting power)

If you ask me, our intellect is not only clouded by maya's concealing power but also false illusory images are projected infront of us by maya's projecting power. Due to these reasons, jivas commit sinful or foolish acts and suffer.

 

[SalixIncendium]

And isn't this ignorance a product of Maya?

Yes.

Advaita speaks of maya's two qualities.
1. Aavaran shakti (Concealing power)
2. Vikshepa shakti (Projecting power)

If you ask me, our intellect is not only clouded by maya's concealing power but also false illusory images are projected infront of us by maya's projecting power. Due to these reasons, jivas commit sinful or foolish acts and suffer.

From what does intellect arise, if not from Maya? Are you not posting here as a result of Maya? Is the act of you sitting here responding to my posts real or illusory? Is your posting here sinful?