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Maybe I don't want to be a Christian any more

Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
What are those "central doctrines," do you think?
So ... faithful Christians are ones who are narrow, judgmental, and who apply a literalistic interpretation of the Bible. What are the Christians who are accepting, affirming, and who actually take the time to exegete the Bible? Unfaithful? How dare you make such a judgment call on people you don't know?
(Seems like that goes against one of those "central doctrines" you just talked about...)

Well, it sure is not your flavor of Christian universalism, even though I wish your flavor of universalism was true. Christian univeralism is a false gospel and unfaithful to the truth of the gospel of God's grace (IMO).
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member

I already told you what I think of your opinion. I don't take seriously anything based solely on convienance.

I really think OmarKhayyam really understands what's going on around here with those who claim to be Christian.

You and Omar are playing for the same team, you're just wearing different uniforms.

Most of the professing Christians around here just have a humanistic Christianity not based on the central doctrines of the Christian Faith defined within the Scriptures.

I'll bet if Jesus himself showed up here one day, you'd be accusing him of the same thing.

I called this Christianity lite or Christian Humanism. That is the very reason why they blend so well on RF, because they are really just one of you (IMO).

If by "one of you" you mean human beings, I agree. Lets hope the rest of you catch up some day.

However, there are some very faithful Christians on this site and I think you already know who they are.

I do indeed, and I wish you would stop bad mouthing them.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I think you need to expound what you are saying, so you do not appear to be guility of the sin of slander against God.
I find it astounding that you would equate disagreeing with you to "the sin of slander against God".

Does your Bible say anything about the sin of pride?
 

Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
I find it astounding that you would equate disagreeing with you to "the sin of slander against God".

Does your Bible say anything about the sin of pride?


I have simply asked those Christians who wrote those comments to document their generalized statements. Hey, maybe they are right if I'm able to read what I posted to justify their statements. However, if they cannot provide copies of my postings to come up with their statments, I think that's called slander in the Bible. This seems to be a very common theme on this RF site. There is a lot of personal attacks as compared to judging what a persons believes as doctrine, theology and truth.

I go to church at least once a week - to a medium sized Methodist church with a fairly "conservative" membership in a small town in East Texas - and I NEVER hear the tone that CP uses, or the approach. When we study scriptures, our pastor puts the text in historical context and he expounds on it and then gives an application to our lives in the 21st century.

If a pastor tried CPs approach at our church, he would be run out of town on a rail.

Even in the most strictest Southern Baptist Church I have attended they are not as harsh as CP. :)

The gopsel of God's grace divides humanity into two groups. It does not leave the Christian in a fellowship campground, roasting marshmellows together, singing we are one with those who do not love the Biblical Lord Jesus Christ. :camp:

Not Peace, but a Sword

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. - The Jesus of the Bible
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
However, if they cannot provide copies of my postings to come up with their statments, I think that's called slander in the Bible.
That's not called slander in the Bible or anywhere else... except your posts, apparently.

This seems to be a very common theme on this RF site. There is a lot of personal attacks as compared to judging what a persons believes as doctrine, theology and truth.
I agree. For example, some users will paint opinions that disagree with theirs as "slander against God".
 

Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
That's not called slander in the Bible or anywhere else... except your posts, apparently.


I agree. For example, some users will paint opinions that disagree with theirs as "slander against God".


Look, I am only addressing those who profess to be Christians and no one else. What side of the line are they as professing Christans, and do they know the gospel of God's grace about His Son? How do these professing Christians understand this passage in light of their fellowship with unbelievers on this Forum site? They appear to be more hostile to what I post as compared to those who do not know God through Jesus Christ. We are called to love all others unconditonally. However, we are also commanded to speak th truth in love, because we love all others unconditionally. To minimize what is written in the Scriptures is not a good thing as a professing Christian. If a Christian is not trying to live by every word that come from the mouth of God, then why should you be a Christian.

The Temple of the Living God

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,
“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,
and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty.”

The Temptation of Jesus

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” But he answered, “It is written,
“‘Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” - Jesus of the Bible
 
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themadhair

Well-Known Member
themadhair said:
"The sort of vitriolic crap CP is posting is actively challenged and looked down upon around here."
I think by "around here" Themadhair" was talking about here on RF rather than here on earth.
By ‘here’ I mean around the border of Northern Ireland. In case you didn’t know there has been lots of strife in this area over the last few decades. It is only in the last 5-6 years that the end to this strife finally looks to be in sight. Religious leaders of all stripes have come together to unite the communities. The sort of divisive message CP is spreading really wouldn’t be tolerated around here because of that historical context.
 

Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
By ‘here’ I mean around the border of Northern Ireland. In case you didn’t know there has been lots of strife in this area over the last few decades. It is only in the last 5-6 years that the end to this strife finally looks to be in sight. Religious leaders of all stripes have come together to unite the communities. The sort of divisive message CP is spreading really wouldn’t be tolerated around here because of that historical context.
http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=2+Corinthians+1
If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed. Our Lord, come! - 1 Cor 16:22


Please help me understand what you see as being divisive. Do you think I am being faithful to the Biblical Jesus Christ, why or why not?

John 10
I Am the Good Shepherd

10:1 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.
7 So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”
19 There was again a division among the Jews because of these words. 20 Many of them said, “He has a demon, and is insane; why listen to him?” 21 Others said, “These are not the words of one who is oppressed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

I and the Father Are One

22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, [1] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” 39 Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.

40 He went away again across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing at first, and there he remained. 41 And many came to him. And they said, “John did no sign, but everything that John said about this man was true.” 42 And many believed in him there.
 
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MysticPhD

Member
If professing Christians are not going to be a Biblical Christian with beliefs driven by all of Scirpture, why even bother being a Christian?
I would reverse that . . . since Jesus came to correct the mistaken view of God presented in the OT so we would have a clear and unambiguous example of the TRUE NATURE of God. 1 John 5:20 (King James Version)

20And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Those of you so enamored with the OT descriptions should not call yourselves Christains. Christians follow Christ. You should probably call yourselves Bibleans . . . since you ignore Jesus and do not throw the "salt" out that has lost its strength and try to pour "new wine" (generations) into "old wineskins." 1 Corinthians 2:16

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:14

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
 
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Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
I would reverse that . . . since Jesus came to correct the mistaken view of God presented in the OT so we would have a clear and unambiguous example of the TRUE NATURE of God. Those of you so enamored with the OT descriptions should not call yourselves Christains. Christians follow Christ. You should probably call yourselves Bibleans . . . since you ignore Jesus and do not throw the "salt" out that has lost its strength and try to pour "new wine" (generations) into "old wineskins." 1 Corinthians 2:16

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:14

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Finally, I have your attention. I am not upset with unbelievers, for they do not claim to love the Lord Jesus Christ. I am upset with professing Christians who have lost their way, and purpose of being set apart for God. So as a Christian, why did God save you? What is your primary purpose as being Christian?
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
By ‘here’ I mean around the border of Northern Ireland.

Ah, my mistake, Themadhair.

In case you didn’t know there has been lots of strife in this area over the last few decades. It is only in the last 5-6 years that the end to this strife finally looks to be in sight. Religious leaders of all stripes have come together to unite the communities. The sort of divisive message CP is spreading really wouldn’t be tolerated around here because of that historical context.

One problem with the over abundance of prosperity and security the U.S. has enjoyed for the last several generations is that there's much less motivation to face reality here than in other parts of the world. :yes:
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Please help me understand what you see as being divisive. Do you think I am being faithful to the Biblical Jesus Christ, why or why not?
I don't think you are. My general impression is that most of your posts here have pushed people away from Christianity rather than brought them toward it.

I'm going to make this personal: my wife is Christian, I'm not. I'm currently grappling with the issue of what role religion will play in the upbringing of the children we plan to have together.

In some cases, such as Katzpur, ChristineES, and several other Christian members here, it strikes me that the faith and religion that they present here and that they espouse with their words and actions is a positive thing. When I think of them, I think that it wouldn't be that half bad for a child of mine to be exposed to that sort of religion.

However, when I see the version of Christianity that you and similar posters here express, I want no part of it, and I want nothing of it in the life of anyone I love.

I have seen Christianity be an expression of love, but I have seen no love whatsoever in your professions of faith, and therefore see no God of love in them either. I think you've immersed yourself so much in scriptural minutia, you've lost sight of the virtues expressed in the Gospels. In a very real way, the views you put forward (which I've heard from other sources as well, not just you - you're only the latest source for them) are a stumbling block to me personally and to the people around me who I have influence on.

The approach you've taken helps to keep people from Christ. If you really do care about the message of the Bible, this will matter to you. For some reason, though, I don't expect it will.
 

MysticPhD

Member
Finally, I have your attention. I am not upset with unbelievers, for they do not claim to love the Lord Jesus Christ. I am upset with professing Christians who have lost their way, and purpose of being set apart for God. So as a Christian, why did God save you? What is your primary purpose as being Christian?
The same as ALL the rest of humankind that Jesus came to save . . . to mature spiritually in "love of God and each other" . . . his PRIME commandments.
 

Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
The same as ALL the rest of humankind that Jesus came to save . . . to mature spiritually in "love of God and each other" . . . his PRIME commandments.

I would say our primary purpose in life is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever, or to glorify God by enjoying Him forever. But, let's go with your answer for a second. How do we love others, especially those who do not love the Lord Jesus Christ? How do we love God? What is the gospel of God's grace? What is the status of those who do not love the Lord Jesus Christ according to the Bible? How does God save sinners?

I will agree that we are to love the Lord God with all of your heart, soul, strenght, and mind, and to love our neighbors as ourself. We are commanded to do this perfectly. Those two commandments are a summary of the 10 commandments and are commanded by God to believers and unbelievers alike... to obey all of the ten commandments perfectly, all the time. What happens when we break one of these laws, according to the Bible?
 
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Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
I don't think you are. My general impression is that most of your posts here have pushed people away from Christianity rather than brought them toward it.

I'm going to make this personal: my wife is Christian, I'm not. I'm currently grappling with the issue of what role religion will play in the upbringing of the children we plan to have together.

In some cases, such as Katzpur, ChristineES, and several other Christian members here, it strikes me that the faith and religion that they present here and that they espouse with their words and actions is a positive thing. When I think of them, I think that it wouldn't be that half bad for a child of mine to be exposed to that sort of religion.

However, when I see the version of Christianity that you and similar posters here express, I want no part of it, and I want nothing of it in the life of anyone I love.

I have seen Christianity be an expression of love, but I have seen no love whatsoever in your professions of faith, and therefore see no God of love in them either. I think you've immersed yourself so much in scriptural minutia, you've lost sight of the virtues expressed in the Gospels. In a very real way, the views you put forward (which I've heard from other sources as well, not just you - you're only the latest source for them) are a stumbling block to me personally and to the people around me who I have influence on.

The approach you've taken helps to keep people from Christ. If you really do care about the message of the Bible, this will matter to you. For some reason, though, I don't expect it will.

You Must Be Born Again (the bottom line)

3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus [1] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again [2] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [3] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You [4] must be born again.’ 8 The wind [5] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you [6] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. [7] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

For God So Loved the World

16 “For God so loved the world, [9] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.” - John 3
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
I would say our primary purpose in life is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever, or to glorify God by enjoying Him forever. But, let's go with your answer for a second.

Lol! Yes, just for a second lets pretend Jesus knew more about the meaning of Jesus' message than you do, CP, just for laughs. :rolleyes:
 

Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
Lol! Yes, just for a second lets pretend Jesus knew more about the meaning of Jesus' message than you do, CP, just for laughs. :rolleyes:

I think the distinction needs to be made between those who love the Lord Jesus Christ and those who do not. One is an in-house debate between those who love the Lord Jesus Christ. The other discussion is between those who love the Lord Jesus Christ and those who do not. That way everything can be taken in it's proper context. I don't expect any unbeliever to see things through my lenses, because that's the nature of the truth of Christianity. If my postings do not eventually upset the unbeliever, I have bought into the lie of Christianity lite, or Christian humanism based on personal feelings rather than Biblical truth. The line in the sand is drawn by the hand of God, and not mine (IMO). Christianity lite tries to remove the line in the sand drawn by God. Christianity lite is ashamed of the gospel.

to those who love the Lord Jesus Christ:

Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, - Paul

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. - Paul
 
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Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
I think the distinction needs to be made between those who love the Lord Jesus Christ and those who do not. One is an in-house debate between those who love the Lord Jesus Christ. The other discussion is between those who love the Lord Jesus Christ and those who do not. That way everything can be taken in it's proper context. I don't expect any unbeliever to see things through my lenses, because that's the nature of the truth of Christianity.

Sooo...you're saying Jesus didn't believe in Jesus?

Otherwise I don't see what this has to do with the post you're (sort of) responding to.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
You Must Be Born Again (the bottom line)
Never mind. I shouldn't have held out hope that you would get what I was saying.

For God So Loved the World

16 “For God so loved the world, [9] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.” - John 3
But here's the thing: I don't think that you're the light. If any Biblical metaphor fits here, I think I see the whitewashed tomb more than anything else in what you offer.

If the Bible's right, then I'll know the good tree when I see it bear good fruit. But so far, I've only seen bad fruit from you.
 
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