Maybe I don't want to be a Christian any more

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't expect any unbeliever to see things through my lenses, because that's the nature of the truth of Christianity. If my postings do not eventually upset the unbeliever, I have bought into the lie of Christianity lite, or Christian humanism based on personal feelings rather than Biblical truth.

Ah... so that's what Jesus meant by "salt of the earth" and "light of the world." Hmm.

 

[J Bryson]

Let's see. I don't really believe that Jesus was the son of God any more than anyone else is. I don't believe in the mystical teachings that have been created out of his life. I'm skeptical regarding the miracles, and outright doubtful regarding the resurrection, except insofar as these tales have metaphorical meaning that I can take to heart. And yet I love his teachings, and what he was trying to do with the overwhelming legalism of the Jewish priesthood at the time. In that sense, I love him greatly. Do I count?

 

[Quagmire]

. If my postings do not eventually upset the unbeliever, I have bought into the lie of Christianity lite, or Christian humanism based on personal feelings rather than Biblical truth. The line in the sand is drawn by the hand of God, and not mine (IMO). Christianity lite tries to remove the line in the sand drawn by God.

Btw, since you've taken it upon yourself to re-classify the Christianity of anyone who doesn't fit into your definition and refer to it by the spiffy new label "Christianity lite", would it be OK if I start refering to your brand as HypoChritianity?

I think that's a lot catchier than Egomania.

 

[J Bryson]

Btw, since you've taken it upon yourself to re-classify the Christianity of anyone who doesn't fit into your definition and refer to it by the spiffy new label "Christianity lite", would it be OK if I start refering to your brand as HypoChritianity?

I think that's a lot catchier than Egomania.

Interestingly enough, the phrase "Christianity Lite" is not original with him. Historian and Christian Robert McElvaine uses the phrase to describe a very different sort of Christian from what CP is talking about. I read the book just recently, and it's worth a look.

GRAND THEFT JESUS: The Hijacking of Religion in America

 

[challupa]

Look, I am only addressing those who profess to be Christians and no one else. What side of the line are they as professing Christans, and do they know the gospel of God's grace about His Son? How do these professing Christians understand this passage in light of their fellowship with unbelievers on this Forum site? They appear to be more hostile to what I post as compared to those who do not know God through Jesus Christ. We are called to love all others unconditonally. However, we are also commanded to speak th truth in love, because we love all others unconditionally. To minimize what is written in the Scriptures is not a good thing as a professing Christian. If a Christian is not trying to live by every word that come from the mouth of God, then why should you be a Christian.

Why does there need to be a line any way? Why is there a "us against them" mentality. What could possibly be wrong with humanism? You say love unconditionally then you heap tons of conditions on everyone! "We are commanded to speak the truth in love" is just a license to say whatever you want whether it is loving or hurtful, right or wrong, all in the name of "your interpretation" of "truth. That's pretty convenient if you are predestined to being a judgmental self righteous individual. I know why I am not a Christian, and I know why Christians are having trouble with the label. It's because of people who think they know the truth and are not humble enough to realize that they might have it wrong. Bottom line CP it's not our right to judge anyone else's relationship with God.

 

[challupa]

Finally, I have your attention. I am not upset with unbelievers, for they do not claim to love the Lord Jesus Christ. I am upset with professing Christians who have lost their way, and purpose of being set apart for God. So as a Christian, why did God save you? What is your primary purpose as being Christian?

No one has the right to judge who has or who has not lost their way! That is up to your God.

 

[MysticPhD]

I would say our primary purpose in life is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever, or to glorify God by enjoying Him forever.

More of the ego-driven arrogance of human beings to think ANYTHING we do could glorify God. God IS Glory. There is NOTHING we pitiful creatures could EVER do that would add to or subtract from God's glory!!.

But, let's go with your answer for a second. How do we love others, especially those who do not love the Lord Jesus Christ? How do we love God? What is the gospel of God's grace? What is the status of those who do not love the Lord Jesus Christ according to the Bible? How does God save sinners?

These questions indicate why you are not perceived as Christian in your understanding. No Christian would have to ask. Jesus's character and unconditional love was unambiguous even after scourging and crucifixion . . ."Forgive them they know not what they do." Unlike your precious Yahweh . . . he didn't SMITE anyone. The key part of your questions is the fact that it is God who calls and God who saves through the Holy Spirit brought to ALL humankind by Jesus's rebirth (resurrection) as Spirit.

I will agree that we are to love the Lord God with all of your heart, soul, strenght, and mind, and to love our neighbors as ourself. We are commanded to do this perfectly. Those two commandments are a summary of the 10 commandments and are commanded by God to believers and unbelievers alike... to obey all of the ten commandments perfectly, all the time. What happens when we break one of these laws, according to the Bible?

Our primitive ancestors had no concept of self-control. Like all animals when the Alpha is not there they do whatever they want. With Moses absent on the mountain . . . what happened. Obedience was the ONLY concept and fear was the ONLY motivator they understood. It took millennia to produce humans with the capability for self-control for love with no Alpha (God) physically present. But by the time of Jesus, the beginnings of this capability to control for love was "ripe for the harvest." Look how misunderstood it has still been throughout the second millennia. The veil of the OT has not been completely lifted even today for so many . . especially literalists.

Fear is the opposite of love. Love cannot exist where fear is. The only advantage to maintaining a fear motivation is to subvert Jesus's message and example and prevent the required development of "love of God and each other" . . . (seems more like the goal of an Angel of Light to me.)

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

No one has the right to judge who has or who has not lost their way! That is up to your God.

You’re not a Christian my friend. I don't expect you to have biblical discernment and understanding. Here is a historical Biblical account of the Apostle Paul rebuking Peter to have face because he has lost his way in regards to the gospel of God's grace

Paul Opposes Peter

But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?” - Gal 2

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

More of the ego-driven arrogance of human beings to think ANYTHING we do could glorify God. God IS Glory. There is NOTHING we pitiful creatures could EVER do that would add to or subtract from God's glory!!. These questions indicate why you are not perceived as Christian in your understanding. No Christian would have to ask. Jesus's character and unconditional love was unambiguous even after scourging and crucifixion . . ."Forgive them they know not what they do." Unlike your precious Yahweh . . . he didn't SMITE anyone. The key part of your questions is the fact that it is God who calls and God who saves through the Holy Spirit brought to ALL humankind by Jesus's rebirth (resurrection) as Spirit.Our primitive ancestors had no concept of self-control. Like all animals when the Alpha is not there they do whatever they want. With Moses absent on the mountain . . . what happened. Obedience was the ONLY concept and fear was the ONLY motivator they understood. It took millennia to produce humans with the capability for self-control for love with no Alpha (God) physically present. But by the time of Jesus, the beginnings of this capability to control for love was "ripe for the harvest." Look how misunderstood it has still been throughout the second millennia. The veil of the OT has not been completely lifted even today for so many . . especially literalists.

Fear is the opposite of love. Love cannot exist where fear is. The only advantage to maintaining a fear motivation is to subvert Jesus's message and example and prevent the required development of "love of God and each other" . . . (seems more like the goal of an Angel of Light to me.)

You have not posted anything about the gospel of God.

So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. - 1 Cor 10:31

Paul's thesis statement for the Espitle of Romans which is the apex of the gospel of God's grace:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. - Rom 1:6-18

Christ the Wisdom and Power of God

For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. - 1 Cor 2:2

For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! - 1 cor 9:16

 

[J Bryson]

You’re not a Christian my friend. I don't expect you to have biblical discernment and understanding. Here is a historical Biblical account of the Apostle Paul rebuking Peter to have face because he has lost his way in regards to the gospel of God's grace

Paul Opposes Peter

But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?” - Gal 2

And as we all know, the apostles were constantly without error. Except when they screwed up, of course. Which they stopped doing once he was dead. Because...help me out here.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

And as we all know, the apostles were constantly without error. Except when they screwed up, of course. Which they stopped doing once he was dead. Because...help me out here.

I would like to understand where you are coming from. What is a Unitarian Univeralist? What is your view in regards to the Holy Bible? Do you attend a church and submit to church elders?

 

[sojourner]

I am still a member of the PCA Church, even though I moved away from that particular church.

Presbyterian Church in America

I do adhere to the Westminster Confession of Faith and the London Bapisti Confession of Faith of 1689.

Forgive me, but you don't sound like any Presbyerians I've ever known.

 

[sojourner]

The Anglican 19 Articles of Faith is wonderful and very similar to what I believe. Roman Catholics and Orthdox are not trying to be biblical Christianity.

Exactly. Neither are the Anglicans. None of those groups buy into the Reformation solas. They place a lot weight on Tradition (of which the Bible is part).

 

[sojourner]

Well, it sure is not your flavor of Christian universalism, even though I wish your flavor of universalism was true. Christian univeralism is a false gospel and unfaithful to the truth of the gospel of God's grace (IMO).

Obviously I disagree with you. The central theme of the Bible is God's reconciliation of humanity.
But you haven't answered my question...

 

[sojourner]

The gopsel of God's grace divides humanity into two groups.

Hmmm....I thought Jesus came to unite us under himself....

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. - The Jesus of the Bible

Which Jesus-of-the-Bible version do you mean? There are several. It makes a difference as to how one exegetes the passage you've cited.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Exactly. Neither are the Anglicans. None of those groups buy into the Reformation solas. They place a lot weight on Tradition (of which the Bible is part).

The Anglicans or at least historic Anglicans defined their faith according to the 39 Articles of Faith which is very similar to the Reformation solas including justification by faith alone, predestination, and sola scriptura.

Thirty-Nine Articles, 39 Articles

I am familar with Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox including sacred traditon and the magestrium. Orthodox Roman Catholicism and orthodox "Eastern Orthodox" is much closer to what I believe than your view of Christian universalism, correct. Again, you can understand where I'm coming from by the Westminster Confession of Faith and the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

 

[sojourner]

I am upset with professing Christians who have lost their way, and purpose of being set apart for God.

Maybe compassion would serve you better than disdain, in this case.
Or isn't compassion for the lost a "central doctrine" of the Bible?

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Maybe compassion would serve you better than disdain, in this case.
Or isn't compassion for the lost a "central doctrine" of the Bible?

What's lost in our generation is the biblical Gospel of God's grace about His Son. Christ and Him crucified is not the central messsage in many of the churches today. Oh... how I wish univeralism is the truth, but that's not even a close one, considering all of scripture. What do you think about my signature? Do you think Jesus was lying? Speaking the truth in love is the compassion for the lost which saves sinners. There is no rebirth with false gospels. Most professing Christians are ashamed of the gospel which saves sinners, and they try to create their own water down version of the gospel. That my friend is an uncompassionate act, leaving those without a rebirth with a false assurance that they have been reconciled to God, leading to eternal destruction.

The Narrow and Wide Gates

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. - Jesus

This paper represents my call to repentance to the church, and all who love the Lord Jesus Christ!

http://www.reformed.org/documents/i...p://www.reformed.org/documents/cambridge.html

 

[Buttons*]

Or isn't compassion for the lost a "central doctrine" of the Bible?

i reckon it's debatable....

 

[J Bryson]

I would like to understand where you are coming from. What is a Unitarian Univeralist? What is your view in regards to the Holy Bible? Do you attend a church and submit to church elders?

I'm not sure what difference this makes. Would your response change based upon my belief system, or is your truth and approach unchanging?