Maybe I don't want to be a Christian any more

[Katzpur]

Imagine that...I got a 4.

I got a 7. It was hard trying to know how to answer some of the questions accurately. Anyway, if Mormonism ranges between 4 and 7, I think we're safe.

 

[Apex]

I got a 7. It was hard trying to know how to answer some of the questions accurately. Anyway, if Mormonism ranges between 4 and 7, I think we're safe.

I got a 4 as well.

 

[Green Gaia]

My UU Church got a 1.

I got a 1, as well. Bet it was the same one: "Some emotionally-charged words may be redefined to emphasize the outlook of the group. Some new words are created to aid comprehension of new or unusual concepts."?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I got a 2.

 

[sojourner]

Hmmm...
My denomination is a "mainstream" denomination, and we scored a "1."
We have elders, but they carry no authority to dictate either behavior, doctrine, or church membership. There's nothing to "submit" to, unless it be to a covenant relationship between us.

 

[ChristineES]

I forgot to mention that mine was a 2 as well.

 

[Waymarker]

..I'm starting to want to distance myself from people who call themselves "Christians."..

Me too, there have always been phonies around but they can't get under Jesus's radar..
Jesus said:-"Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)

 

[Alceste]

I got a 7. It was hard trying to know how to answer some of the questions accurately. Anyway, if Mormonism ranges between 4 and 7, I think we're safe.

None of the Mormons I've known have seemed to be involved in a cultish community. The impression I always got is that you could pretty much come and go as you pleased. I had a friend who stopped being a "practicing Mormon" to drink coffee and have premarital sex, then returned and all was well. There was never any bad blood - her church taught that the "rules" of Mormonism are just plain common sense, and it's your own business if you aren't willing or able to "practice" them. Very sensible.

Anyway, the score 4-7 sounds about right.

 

[J Bryson]

I got a 1, as well. Bet it was the same one: "Some emotionally-charged words may be redefined to emphasize the outlook of the group. Some new words are created to aid comprehension of new or unusual concepts."?

Hah! Bingo! I was specifically thinking of the redefinition of sin from a humanist perspective in that case.

 

[Muffled]

I got a 7. It was hard trying to know how to answer some of the questions accurately. Anyway, if Mormonism ranges between 4 and 7, I think we're safe.

I took it from the perspective of the Presbyterian Church that I am attending and got a 1. The test doesn't measure whether Christianity is thought of as a private club or whether a denomination thinks it is a private club.

Are you really a heretic? I suppose that all depends on who is defining heresy. In an LDS chucrch I suspect that you are orthodox.

In the Four Square church I have been defined as a heretic becuase I don't believe in the Doctrine of the Trinity. I was called before the elders and told not to speak about doctrine in church. That was unacceptable for me so I left.

Now in the Presbyterian Church I was told that all I needed to do was admit I was a sinner and testify that Jesus is my Savior to become a member, so there hasn't been any flak about my lack of belief in the Doctrine of the Trinity (which they adhere to also) yet but that doesn't mean there won't be. In the meantime Jesus told me not to become a member because He doesn't want His name associated with that false doctrine.

On the other hand one of my previous churchs had a very liberal stance on doctrine, so that I was quite comfortable becoming a member. However their liberality extended to welcoming people into church membership who weren't Christians and I left because it seemed anti-nominal to me. For instance I would not consider a UU church to be Christian if it accepted atheists as members.

 

[challupa]

For instance I would not consider a UU church to be Christian if it accepted atheists as members.

Why, atheists celebrate humanity just like I would presume God does? Why does religion need to be so divisive. If atheists feel comfortable in the UU church, that says alot for the church imo. We need more harmony and acceptance between different groups of humanity not more division.

 

[Waymarker]

..In the Four Square church I have been defined as a heretic becuase I don't believe in the Doctrine of the Trinity..

Maybe their interpretation of the Trinity is different to others?
I can't see why some people such as them seem so obsessed about it, I mean, There's God, there's his son Jesus, and there's the Holy Spirit, no christian denies that, so why all the fuss?

 

[existentialangst]

Maybe their interpretation of the Trinity is different to others?
I can't see why some people such as them seem so obsessed about it, I mean, There's God, there's his son Jesus, and there's the Holy Spirit, no christian denies that, so why all the fuss?

The fuss comes from two thousand years of religion seperate from spirituality. The history of the church especially in the Dark Ages was one of church leaders telling the populace what they should believe. Now we are all more educated and want to ask "WHY?". Why do i have to believe this? We can either be lazy and accept what we are told or we can take our own personal experiences and some exhaustive Biblical and religious studies and come to our own conclusions. I Am a Christian because i have a personal relationship with myself and my God, because i've educated myself about my belief system. So i believe in the metaphor of the trinity accoording to what i know through experience and trial and error of actions and behaviors in my life.

 

[challupa]

The fuss comes from two thousand years of religion seperate from spirituality. The history of the church especially in the Dark Ages was one of church leaders telling the populace what they should believe. Now we are all more educated and want to ask "WHY?". Why do i have to believe this? We can either be lazy and accept what we are told or we can take our own personal experiences and some exhaustive Biblical and religious studies and come to our own conclusions. I Am a Christian because i have a personal relationship with myself and my God, because i've educated myself about my belief system. So i believe in the metaphor of the trinity accoording to what i know through experience and trial and error of actions and behaviors in my life.

I like that answer. By the way, welcome to RF

 

[autonomous1one1]

The older -- and wiser -- I get, and the more I hang out on RF, the more convinced I am that I don't really care whether I'm known as a Christian or not. ........

Greetings Katz. One can understand your feelings, but from a different perspective one hopes that you will retain the label 'Christian.' This is so that your wonderful being will lend itself to the meaning of Christian as 'others' who know you may think of it. For, a label not only indicates characteristics to the subject so labeled but the label can receive aspects of its meaning back from the subjects in turn.

Sincerely,
a..1

 

[challupa]

Greetings Katz. One can understand your feelings, but from a different perspective one hopes that you will retain the label 'Christian.' This is so that your wonderful being will lend itself to the meaning of Christian as 'others' who know you may think of it. For, a label not only indicates characteristics to the subject so labeled but the label can receive aspects of its meaning back from the subjects in turn.

Sincerely,
a..1

That's a good way of looking at it. Never really thought of that. Thanks:yes:

 

[existentialangst]

Greetings Katz. One can understand your feelings, but from a different perspective one hopes that you will retain the label 'Christian.' This is so that your wonderful being will lend itself to the meaning of Christian as 'others' who know you may think of it. For, a label not only indicates characteristics to the subject so labeled but the label can receive aspects of its meaning back from the subjects in turn.

YES, kind of creating our own meaning, but this goes beyond a label. Unfortunately i have to say yes i am a Christian but that label does not tell you who i am or what i believe.

 

[Muffled]

The fuss comes from two thousand years of religion seperate from spirituality. The history of the church especially in the Dark Ages was one of church leaders telling the populace what they should believe. Now we are all more educated and want to ask "WHY?". Why do i have to believe this? We can either be lazy and accept what we are told or we can take our own personal experiences and some exhaustive Biblical and religious studies and come to our own conclusions. I Am a Christian because i have a personal relationship with myself and my God, because i've educated myself about my belief system. So i believe in the metaphor of the trinity accoording to what i know through experience and trial and error of actions and behaviors in my life.

This shouldn't be the problem becasue the Four Square Church is a charismatic church.

The dark ages may have seen an increase in the number illiterates but that is probably not the problem. People could have heard the word read to them by literate people. The problem stems from the Roman Catholic perspective that they had the authority to declare doctrine as absolute truth and anything contradictory as Heresy. In a way that is what the Four Square approach was. There ws no willingness to listen but only an approach that the church was the authority and I could either accept it or keep my mouth shut.

There is a problem with this. Without the guidance of the Holy Spirit learning rarely leads to the truth. The objective is not to become disjointed with other people but to allow the Holy Spirit to bring us all into a unified truth.

I don't agree that a trinitarian concept is necessary to be considered a Christian and that never came up as an issue for me. Katz also holds to the Doctrine of the Trinity but that doesn't make her a Christian. I suspect that Katz would be comfortable testifying that Jesus is her Lord and Savior and that she is a sinner and therfore would be considered a Christian by the Presbyterian Church.

 

[sojourner]

The fuss comes from two thousand years of religion seperate from spirituality.

According to whom? The Church is a spiritual entity, or it would not be the Church.

The history of the church especially in the Dark Ages was one of church leaders telling the populace what they should believe

Don't kid yourself. The Church during the Enlightenment and the Reformation was just as bad. And it was in the early proto-Church. In fact, it still is in many cases!

Now we are all more educated and want to ask "WHY?"

This is gross oversimplification. Don't you suppose that human beings are naturally curious, and have always been curious? Education does not breed curiosity. It's the other way 'round!

We can either be lazy and accept what we are told or we can take our own personal experiences and some exhaustive Biblical and religious studies and come to our own conclusions.

Except that theology and belief are not particularly individual endeavors. Rather, they arise out of a "sense of the community."

I Am a Christian because i have a personal relationship with myself and my God, because i've educated myself about my belief system.

I hope you also have a relationship with God of the community, and with the members thereof, because you've made it a priority to love them and live in relationship with them.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

This shouldn't be the problem becasue the Four Square Church is a charismatic church.

The dark ages may have seen an increase in the number illiterates but that is probably not the problem. People could have heard the word read to them by literate people. The problem stems from the Roman Catholic perspective that they had the authority to declare doctrine as absolute truth and anything contradictory as Heresy. In a way that is what the Four Square approach was. There ws no willingness to listen but only an approach that the church was the authority and I could either accept it or keep my mouth shut.

There is a problem with this. Without the guidance of the Holy Spirit learning rarely leads to the truth. The objective is not to become disjointed with other people but to allow the Holy Spirit to bring us all into a unified truth.

I don't agree that a trinitarian concept is necessary to be considered a Christian and that never came up as an issue for me. Katz also holds to the Doctrine of the Trinity but that doesn't make her a Christian. I suspect that Katz would be comfortable testifying that Jesus is her Lord and Savior and that she is a sinner and therfore would be considered a Christian by the Presbyterian Church.

I do not know of any Presbyterian Church who accepts Mormon Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ. Presbyterian Churches will use the Westminster Confession of Faith as their standard which the Trinity is defined as an essential doctrine of the Christian Faith. I still have my membership at the PCA even though I moved away from that particular church.