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McCarthy has been removed as Speaker of the House.

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The most succinct summation I've seen is this, and it makes sense to me:

Democrats get it: Don't get in the way when your opponents are self-destructing.
Except here it looks as if they tired to help in the self destruction. To me it would have been wiser for them to just vote "present". Yes, McCarthy is terrible. Do they seriously think that they will get someone better? And the nation could suffer if we get someone worse.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Except here it looks as if they tired to help in the self destruction. To me it would have been wiser for them to just vote "present". Yes, McCarthy is terrible. Do they seriously think that they will get someone better? And the nation could suffer if we get someone worse.

Still, while some might perceive that the Democrats would look better as completely "peaceful" and pacifist-like, I feel it doesn't create the best image before an election, either. I think it was actually good that they made a move toward the self-crumbling of their opponents (a crumbling that their opponents themselves started).

Remember, when it comes to voters, we're dealing with people, and not all people do things like critically think and follow logic. So Democrats that never make any of their own political shots, may not get their vote. Even some of us who do critically think, don't want to see a completely serene Democrat party - not in a heated political climate, anyway.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Still, while some might perceive that the Democrats would look better as completely "peaceful" and pacifist-like, I feel it doesn't create the best image before an election, either. I think it was actually good that they made a move toward the self-crumbling of their opponents (a crumbling that their opponents themselves started).

Remember, when it comes to voters, we're dealing with people, and not all people do things like critically think and follow logic. So Democrats that never make any of their own political shots, may not get their vote. Even some of us who do critically think, don't want to see a completely serene Democrat party - not in a heated political climate, anyway.
I won't be too critical, since this is politics, and it has not been exactly clean since the beginning. I just hope that this does not come back to bite them in the donkey.
 

anna.

colors your eyes with what's not there
Except here it looks as if they tired to help in the self destruction. To me it would have been wiser for them to just vote "present". Yes, McCarthy is terrible. Do they seriously think that they will get someone better? And the nation could suffer if we get someone worse.

McCarthy had a chance to work with the Democrats, but he refused, which resulted in the Democrats standing united against him. McCarthy gave so many concessions to the MAGA members, including the rule change that allowed Gaetz to put his removal in motion, but he wouldn't give any bipartisan concessions to the Democrats, and so the frog was left to ask the MAGA scorpion why he stung him. The frog should've known better.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
The next speaker will be a corporate-approved appointee that will push the corporate Republican agenda.
Fossil fuel controlled

- low wages
- no corporate tax
- no regulations
- climate change is fake
- Koch agenda
It baffles me that those who don't even benefit from any of this vote these people in at their own detriment. I suppose that's the true reason behind the LGBT witch hunts and the "woke" moral panic; to give them a bs reason to vote against their own interests.
 
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Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
It baffles me that those who don't even beneift from any of this vote these people in at their own detriment. I suppose that's the true reason behind the LGBT witch hunts and the "woke" moral panic; to give them a bs reason to vote against their own interests.
Because we let the parties tell us what we want instead of vice-versa. Taking sides with political parties lets us pigeon-hole the opposition so we can just vote straight down the ballot for our party without taking any time to see what the candidates on both sides are actually advocating.
 

Copernicus

Industrial Strength Linguist
It baffles me that those who don't even benefit from any of this vote these people in at their own detriment. I suppose that's the true reason behind the LGBT witch hunts and the "woke" moral panic; to give them a bs reason to vote against their own interests.

I don't think that we would have a Republican majority in the House right now, were it not for rampant gerrymandering in the more numerous red states. Republican delegations from some states that are more "purple" in terms of demographics can send overwhelming majority Republican delegations to Congress and take over state governments with supermajority legislatures, as they have in North Carolina. A lot of people stuck in heavily gerrymandered districts may not even bother to vote, if they don't think their vote will matter in the outcome of an election. I suspect that a lot of Republicans in California feel the same way as Democrats in red states. Why bother voting, if it won't change anything?
 

anna.

colors your eyes with what's not there
I don't think that we would have a Republican majority in the House right now, were it not for rampant gerrymandering in the more numerous red states. Republican delegations from some states that are more "purple" in terms of demographics can send overwhelming majority Republican delegations to Congress and take over state governments with supermajority legislatures, as they have in North Carolina. A lot of people stuck in heavily gerrymandered districts may not even bother to vote, if they don't think their vote will matter in the outcome of an election. I suspect that a lot of Republicans in California feel the same way as Democrats in red states. Why bother voting, if it won't change anything?

Bingo. The GOP REDMAP project.

 

anna.

colors your eyes with what's not there
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anna.

colors your eyes with what's not there
Looks like Louisiana it trying to replicate Alabama's failure.

Here's a good analysis. The more things change, etc...

 

esmith

Veteran Member
You mean like how the Reps broke that ground and refused to let Obama have his rightful Supreme Court nomination?
Like it or not the Reps have only themselves to blame.
What does Obama's appointing a justics and lock step of not having a speaker to get the job of Congress done have in common
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
This was a Republican v Republican production -- Democrats really had nothing to do with it. But the bottom line, as far as I can see, is that Republicans have basically declared that "if one of us tries to work with a Democrat, to be bi-partisan, his butt belongs to Jesus!" That's pretty sad. Decent people, people who genuinely want to solve problems, will always try to find middle ground, to find ways to come together for the good of all -- and Republicans want none of that, it would appear.
Did any Democrats vote to retain McCarthy as Speaker? The Republicans believe in Democracy and allow alternate opinions, even against the Republican status quo leadership. This was also how Trump was able to become President and also who Swamp Republicans were able to go along with the Democrat collusion Coup. The Democrats, again, remained lock step like a bunch of Nazi on parade. They will not even allow anyone to run in the primaries, against Biden, less their dictator choice be undermined, and others decide to break goose step.

On the bright side, Congressman Matt Gaetz, who led the removal, has nominated Donald Trump to be the new speaker. That would be interesting. Do you think any Democrat would vote for Trump or will they all put on the blinders and vote as they are told?

One advantage of the Democrat lock step way, is you do not need skilled people in office, since secondary opinion do not matter, but can cause problems. They found the solution, which is to campaign with DEI actors who appear to be statesmen and women. Actors can be produced and directed and will not get upset when directed, since they are looking for an Acting Award; TV exposure, and a nice campaign slush fund.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It baffles me that those who don't even benefit from any of this vote these people in at their own detriment. I suppose that's the true reason behind the LGBT witch hunts and the "woke" moral panic; to give them a bs reason to vote against their own interests.
I'd be surprised if you didn't agree that that's the purpose of conservative indoctrination media. It exists to solicit political support from the people it intends to exploit, and it's been extremely effective. About half of the country seems to be captured by it and trusts its source and message. The technique is always the same - create boogeymen and convince people that they are the reason their American dream never came true, such as Democrats (who are Communists and Marxists and woke), immigrants (who are infected criminals coming for your jobs and most recently to poison your blood). These propagandists call the tune and the susceptible dance to it. Unfortunately for America, that about half of them.
The Democrats prefer to see the Republicans in disaray than do the job they were sent to Congress to do.
The Democrats ARE doing their job, which in this case is to protect America from a Republican House majority. The Republicans are malicious and destructive. Their agenda seems to be to shut down the government (the brinksmanship alone was destructive), protect Trump from prosecution (they can't, but they can try), and impeach Biden without a case. Since they hold a majority, they can cause maximal damage if they're in accord, and less if they are in disarray and fighting among themselves. What more can the Democrats do when the electorate votes for a Republican majority? THAT'S a huge problem, as is the gerrymandering.
Democrats are the ones who created Maga and brought Trump to power through their arrogance and sanctimonious behavior.
Let that be a lesson. If you don't want a lying, vengeful, low-information, racist, criminal president and the cultural infection that follows resulting in MAGA antics in government and fascists marching in Charlottesville, don't be what you call arrogant or sanctimonious. And what did the left do to justify that description? You'll have to go to Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson for that answer. I'm sure they explained it on Fox.
The Democrats, again, remained lock step like a bunch of Nazi on parade.
This is contemptible. The actual fascists in lockstep were Trump's puppets. The Democrats are unified in their rejection of MAGA politics as are all sensible, decent, patriotic Americans. You should be as well, but somehow were recruited to disseminate garbage like the above, which also no doubt also has its source in conservative indoctrination media. You take unity and first make it seem mindless (lockstep) and then gratuitously throw in Nazis rather than say a marching band.
The Republicans believe in Democracy and allow alternate opinions
The Republicans believe in Democracy? The Republicans led the insurrection and attempted to protect its chief architects and protagonists. The Republicans sent false electors to Washington. The Republicans tried to get multiple free and fair statewide election overturned.

And they welcome internal debate? Sure they do. Just ask Cheney, who was primaried for her disloyalty to the MAGA agenda. Ten Republicans voted to impeach Trump the second time and only two remain in Congress. Watch how the Republicans treat Gaetz for his independent opinions. They're already leaking dirt on him in anticipation of booting him out of Congress. It seems like a foregone conclusion.
 
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wellwisher

Well-Known Member
I don't think that we would have a Republican majority in the House right now, were it not for rampant gerrymandering in the more numerous red states. Republican delegations from some states that are more "purple" in terms of demographics can send overwhelming majority Republican delegations to Congress and take over state governments with supermajority legislatures, as they have in North Carolina. A lot of people stuck in heavily gerrymandered districts may not even bother to vote, if they don't think their vote will matter in the outcome of an election. I suspect that a lot of Republicans in California feel the same way as Democrats in red states. Why bother voting, if it won't change anything?
The reason there were not more Republicans in the current House and Senate, was election tampering via social media censorship.The Courts have voted to not allow Biden, Swamp and Government to send in the FBI and other members of government agencies, into social media companies, and strong arm them to censor only the content of the Republicans, like they did in 2020. Anything Republican was called hate speech, like saying the COVID virus came from a lab in China. That simple truth would have given Trump an advantage, for seeing it sooner than all the Democrats combined. Democrats may hav known it, but were running cover up.

It did seem strange how a deadly virus would appear, just in time for the 2020 election season and kill the strong Trump economy. Fate is a weird thing. But why did the Democrats work so hard to cover up the origins with strong arm censorship??????

If only one side is able to get out message, in this age of social media, then that side has a big advantage. That censorship and shadow banding cheat, will not be in play this time, since it is against the law and will be monitored. Now the Democrat base and Independents will get to hear about the Biden Family Influence Peddling Business and the middle class hardship at the supermarkets, due to Biden-omics. They can still censor this on Lefty TV, like CNN, by not reporting the facts. But now the other side will have a full voice for those who seek information and second opinions on social media, to make rational choices, instead of lock step choices.

The Democrats are losing black and hispanic voters, who see the squeeze on the middle class and their American dream. This is due to too much spending and too much interest on the escalating national debt. In 2020 the interest on the National Debt was $475 billion, which is more than half of what we spend on defense. This is before Biden and the Democrats caused the prime interest rate to double; 4% to 8.5%, due to the resulting inflation caused by the fossil fuel taboo. All shipping costs and many raw material prices, rose. The economy was also stalled by the Democrats led shut down during COVID, which was not really needed other than for politics; hurt the Trump economy. The rich are doing just fine under Democrats; raise prices and pass it on to the consumer, but the middle class is struggling.

The mortgaging of the future; national debt, is pissing tax money down the toilet, that could be spent on the people of the country. That interest, if it was in play, could easily sure up Social Security and other social and infrastructure programs, all while not touching national defense; good for all. The Democrats do not wish to get the spending under control. Fiscal conservative Black and Hispanic are starting to vote for those who can promise to get the budget under control; lower the interest toilet flush, so they can have the America Dream, and stop the inevitable collapse of this debt ridden house of cards.

By the way the interest on the National debt in 2023 due to more borrowing and spending and higher interest rates is $630B. This is now 85% what we spend on defense and 50% of what we spend on social security. It is being given to rich people and investors, both at home and in foreign countries, as interest payments. The scam sends lot of American tax money overseas to the rich Arabs Sheiks and Chinese government. Politicians who support the debt, get a compounding skim. They are doing just fine.
U.S. Government Spending, FYTD 2023
Top 10 Spending by Category and Agency
CategoryAgency
Percentage

Dollars

$1.24 T
Social Security

$812 B
Health

$736 B
National Defense

$730 B
Medicare

$716 B
Income Security

$630 B
Net Interest

$259 B
Veterans Benefits and Services

$112 B
Transportation

$82 B
Community and Regional Development

$74 B
Administration of Justice

$105 B
Other
 
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Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Did any Democrats vote to retain McCarthy as Speaker? The Republicans believe in Democracy and allow alternate opinions, even against the Republican status quo leadership. This was also how Trump was able to become President and also who Swamp Republicans were able to go along with the Democrat collusion Coup. The Democrats, again, remained lock step like a bunch of Nazi on parade. They will not even allow anyone to run in the primaries, against Biden, less their dictator choice be undermined, and others decide to break goose step.

On the bright side, Congressman Matt Gaetz, who led the removal, has nominated Donald Trump to be the new speaker. That would be interesting. Do you think any Democrat would vote for Trump or will they all put on the blinders and vote as they are told?

One advantage of the Democrat lock step way, is you do not need skilled people in office, since secondary opinion do not matter, but can cause problems. They found the solution, which is to campaign with DEI actors who appear to be statesmen and women. Actors can be produced and directed and will not get upset when directed, since they are looking for an Acting Award; TV exposure, and a nice campaign slush fund.
Why on earth do you think Democrats would intervene in an internecine quarrel amongst Republicans -- especially given that they had voted (without aid to Ukraine) for the Republicans short-term budget bill to keep the government open, only to have McCarthy insult them the very day before he was voted out?

And by what absolute madness do you suppose any Democrat with a brain (or any Republican with a brain, for that matter) would vote for Trump as Speaker of the House -- a job that is 99.6% about getting some sort of consensus among very disparate players? Do you think that's Trump's forte? Woof!

And like it or not, though you think you need no skilled people in office, that was precisely Nancy Pelosi's skill -- she could cobble together enough agreement to get lots of bills onto the House floor with assurance of being passed. McCarthy, in his desperation to get his portrait in the Speakers gallery, gave away the store. Any fool with a divided caucus who caves in to a demand for a single member to be able to move to vacate -- and not even for a vote for him, but just "Present!" -- deserves everything that he gets. I thought his tenure would be short at that moment, and I was right, 9 months is a pretty short Speakership.
 
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