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Medical Assistance in Dying (MAID), or Euthanasia

Over the past 8 years, has your attitude to MAID (with responsible rules) changed, and if so, how?

  • I was against, now I'm for.

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • I was for, and now I'm against.

    Votes: 2 5.1%
  • I was for, and still am.

    Votes: 30 76.9%
  • I was against, and still am.

    Votes: 2 5.1%
  • Other (if you choose this, please explain)

    Votes: 4 10.3%

  • Total voters
    39

Whateverist

Active Member
So who is making the choice to have them die? They or you?

No choice need be made by anyone for life to end. It is the inevitable conclusion of all mortal beings. Self aware, sentient beings see the writing on the wall and are able to acquiesce to death as the lesser of two bad choices in unfortunate circumstances. It isn’t irrational or immoral.
 

Jagella

Member
Jagella said:
I don't know what people near death and in pain choose. I've known people in pain and near death, and none of them chose to be put to death. So who is making the choice to have them die? They or you?
Why do we need to make a choice preemptively for everyone and who should make such policies. You asked if I’ve ever taken care of people in pain and near death. I’m not going to claim any authority based on my answer to that but neither do I grant any to anyone else based on their experience, yourself included.
You didn't answer my question so I must assume that you wish to choose who among the dying will live and who will survive. What they want is not considered. This is one of the dangers of euthanasia; it purports to honor the wishes of the dying while it actually serves the wishes of those who do not value the lives of the dying. It is unwise to be too quick to believe what people say.

Neither did you answer my question regarding your treatment of the dying. I've noticed that euthanasia proponents preach compassion and respect for those suffering yet do nothing to back up those sermons. The elderly and disabled are very often put out to pasture and forgotten. I've decided to be different in that regard as much as I reasonably can. I don't just spout empty talk and empty promises but am I man of my word practicing what I preach.
 

Whateverist

Active Member
You didn't answer my question so I must assume that you wish to choose who among the dying will live and who will survive.

You seem to be seething with must. I don't think your assumption is justified from any rational, in touch perspective but your assumptions are up to you even if making us all die in agony is not.
 

Jagella

Member
You seem to be seething with must.
I don't know what that means. Do you know what it means? But whatever it means, it doesn't justify putting the sick to death.
I don't think your assumption is justified from any rational, in touch perspective but your assumptions are up to you even if making us all die in agony is not.
Well, there are times when I'm tempted to make some people die in agony. What makes you so sure that euthanasia isn't dying in agony? I understand that Terri Schiavo died that way. She died a horrible death being starved and dehydrated to death. It's what your side of this issue calls "death with dignity."
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
You didn't answer my question so I must assume that you wish to choose who among the dying will live and who will survive. What they want is not considered. This is one of the dangers of euthanasia; it purports to honor the wishes of the dying while it actually serves the wishes of those who do not value the lives of the dying. It is unwise to be too quick to believe what people say.

Neither did you answer my question regarding your treatment of the dying. I've noticed that euthanasia proponents preach compassion and respect for those suffering yet do nothing to back up those sermons. The elderly and disabled are very often put out to pasture and forgotten. I've decided to be different in that regard as much as I reasonably can. I don't just spout empty talk and empty promises but am I man of my word practicing what I preach.
The choice should be up to they dying person only. Medical directives are critical for situations where a person become incapable of deciding for themselves.
 

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Think of ALS (aka Lou Gehrig's disease). It's fatal, it's a problem with motor neurans, involving progressive degeneration of nerve cells in the spinal cord and brain leading to loss of voluntary control of arms and legs, and eventual loss of ability breath. Sadly, it does not affect intelligence, thinking, seeing, or hearing, so you are constantly aware that your are suffocating to death. Do you know a drug that can make that go away? Do you think the doctors do? (They don't.)

... Jason did indeed lose the ability to play guitar, walk, talk, and breathe on his own. But he never lost his will to live or his desire to create music. Communicating through a series of eye movements with a system developed by his father, Jason spells out words as well as musical notes and chords...

 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
... Jason did indeed lose the ability to play guitar, walk, talk, and breathe on his own. But he never lost his will to live or his desire to create music. Communicating through a series of eye movements with a system developed by his father, Jason spells out words as well as musical notes and chords...

Good, and I am glad for him. But I do not accept that everybody is the same. Or should be forced to be.
 

Jagella

Member
Almost 8 years ago, Canada passed legislation that finally permitted doctors to assist people who, afflicted with terminal illness or unbearable medical issues, to die. There were strict rules (which have been relaxed a bit in the meantime).
I understand that some disability rights organizations opposed that legislation. Generally, disability rights groups oppose euthanasia seeing it as a danger to the disabled and everybody, really. You must admit it's a tough sell when those you propose to help fear your help and want no part of it.
To me, this made perfect sense. I have had pets put down (a cat suffering from cardiac failure, a dog with liver cancer). Although this saddened me, because I lost loved members of my family, I did it out of love for them -- to allow them to die comfortably and peacefully, without struggling on in pain.
Animals are not people. We generally don't treat people like we treat animals. Your argument here is no more valid than to say that since we eat animals, than we should eat people too! I think civilized behavior should be based on valuing human life. If we throw away some human lives as so much trash, then the social consequences jeopardize society by devaluing people we see as pitiful or a burden on society.
Many people still believe, however, that this is wrong (or a "sin") when humans are involved.
People who oppose euthanasia are often seen as religious nuts. I oppose euthanasia, and I am neither.
That even if Granny is in pain, it is wrong (for whatever reason) to grant he wish to seek help to die.
Is it really Granny who wants to die, or would somebody else--possibly a member of her family--want her to die? It's common for families to abuse elderly or disabled relatives, and getting rid of those relatives under the guise of compassion or honoring their "decision" can be a stealthy option.
My question is this: over the past 8 years, has your attitude to MAID or euthanasia changed? Are you for or against?
I'm generally against euthanasia because the stigma I need to live with is bad enough without labeling me as a hopeless case who's better off dead. Besides, I know full well that those who might be "on deck" for suicide due to pain are probably in pain due to poor health care that could be improved a lot.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
When do we cross the line from prolonging life and prolonging death? Should the government be telling people that are terminal that they have no choice but to continue in debilitating pain until they die naturally?
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Is it really Granny who wants to die, or would somebody else--possibly a member of her family--want her to die? It's common for families to abuse elderly or disabled relatives, and getting rid of those relatives under the guise of compassion or honoring their "decision" can be a stealthy option.
Or you could actually ask Granny! Perhaps with nobody in the room? I can list the names of people who fought hard for the right to Medical Assistance in Dying, because they truly wanted that assistance. Sue Rodriguez, for example, suffering from ALS, sincerely wished to die on her own terms, with help to do so comfortably. She was a Canadian activist who did every thing she could to achieve this result. And got her wish in 1994.
 

Jagella

Member
Or you could actually ask Granny! Perhaps with nobody in the room? I can list the names of people who fought hard for the right to Medical Assistance in Dying, because they truly wanted that assistance. Sue Rodriguez, for example, suffering from ALS, sincerely wished to die on her own terms, with help to do so comfortably. She was a Canadian activist who did every thing she could to achieve this result. And got her wish in 1994.
OK. Fine. As long as force or coercion is not involved in assisted dying, then that's not a problem with it although I think there are many other difficulties.
 
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